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Raves

CB Eli Apple, New York Giants

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On 1/1/2018 at 5:51 PM, Raves said:

Considering Apple, Lattimore, and Bell played exceedingly well together whats this risk you speak of?  The biggest risk would be towards Crawley who could lose playing time if supplanted by Apple.  Also this is the NFL and a business, people will only vouch for so much as it affects their potential future earnings as well and know that if the guy is gonna be an issue its not worth to bring him in.  Heck it's also not like they are going to ask them about Apple in front of him so they would have no reason to lie.

The risk would be the old saying... One bad ? destroys a bunch.

 

No punn intended but by all accounts Apple is imature and a locker room problem. Reguardless if Bell and Lattimore love the guy, if you as a front office have any doubt as to whether the addition of Apple could negativly affect Bell or Lattimore, ANY reason whats so ever then you pass!

 

The fact of the matter is that their are people who bring and provoke a negative atmosphere despite maybe being very talented. Every NFL locker room has clicks and that secondary group has a very good vibe going for it right now... Id be very cautious of the type of individual I would just throw into the mix their.

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4 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

The risk would be the old saying... One bad ? destroys a bunch.

 

No punn intended but by all accounts Apple is imature and a locker room problem. Reguardless if Bell and Lattimore love the guy, if you as a front office have any doubt as to whether the addition of Apple could negativly affect Bell or Lattimore, ANY reason whats so ever then you pass!

 

The fact of the matter is that their are people who bring and provoke a negative atmosphere despite maybe being very talented. Every NFL locker room has clicks and that secondary group has a very good vibe going for it right now... Id be very cautious of the type of individual I would just throw into the mix their.

Where's the proof? 

Taking a different spin on this... If front office does sign him to a contract (that he's worth) would fans be willing to accept that we vetted him and he isn't a "bad apple" (love the punn). 

 

I would, we have track record of getting rid of bad players.

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Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Randal Cunningham - All played together, all were "bad apples", and all curbed their BS once they got into a good situation. They nearly (and should have) been in a Super Bowl together, on the same team (Vikings) until a kicker botched their only missed FG of the year.

Adam Jones is about as good of a study as you can get. The kid was out of control, and got it turned around with a different atmosphere.

All I'm saying is, any talent is worth a look. If we're unhappy that he might unseat Ken Crawley, then Ken better step up his game! That goes for any player.

Crawley is good, but he ain't the elite guy, or even the top 15. He is pretty much a step above average, and very serviceable. Get a killer corner to work with him, and use him as a backup, and this defense is down right scary.

Lattimore makes Crawley good, and Crawley being average helps make Lattimore what he is. If Crawley were better, more passes would go Lattimore's way. But he's not, so they throw at him instead of Lattimore.

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1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Randal Cunningham - All played together, all were "bad apples", and all curbed their BS once they got into a good situation. They nearly (and should have) been in a Super Bowl together, on the same team (Vikings) until a kicker botched their only missed FG of the year.

Adam Jones is about as good of a study as you can get. The kid was out of control, and got it turned around with a different atmosphere.

All I'm saying is, any talent is worth a look. If we're unhappy that he might unseat Ken Crawley, then Ken better step up his game! That goes for any player.

Crawley is good, but he ain't the elite guy, or even the top 15. He is pretty much a step above average, and very serviceable. Get a killer corner to work with him, and use him as a backup, and this defense is down right scary.

Lattimore makes Crawley good, and Crawley being average helps make Lattimore what he is. If Crawley were better, more passes would go Lattimore's way. But he's not, so they throw at him instead of Lattimore.

There are certainly examples of guys turning it around. However there's also examples of guys simply not turning it around and bringing their distractions to new teams. How I currently look at it is that we have 2 young talented CB's. We certainly aren't in need of an upgrade right now as Lattimore/Crawley have been a positive for us this season. If we add a guy like Apple, he has shown little to nothing so far in his career, and looks like he's just simply a bust. If we are talking about a guy like Cris Carter who was cut by the Eagles after an 11 touchdown season, and signed by the Vikings then yeah I'd definitely be on board giving it a shot as the guy clearly had talent at the NFL level. Same with Moss, he was always known as being an absolute freakish athlete with all the talent in the world. Adam Jones is another guy that at least showed he had tons of talent before being cut by the Titans. 

The thing I see with Crawley is he has stepped up in the games when Lattimore has been out of the lineup and has continued to make plays on the ball throughout the year. I agree he isn't at Lattimore's level, and he never will be. That isn't a slight on Crawley though as very few CB's will be that good in the NFL, and Apple also doesn't appear close to being one of them. The other thing with Crawley is he is just 24 years old, he already appears to be a solid/good CB in the NFL. He still has pretty limited experience as he has 18 starts in his career, and was thought to be a bit of a project coming into the NFL. This leads me to believe we haven't seen Crawley at his peak yet, so I think we continue to see him improve in the coming years. I fully expect him and Lattimore to be a great duo going forward.  

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17 hours ago, ckoz24 said:

Where's the proof? 

Taking a different spin on this... If front office does sign him to a contract (that he's worth) would fans be willing to accept that we vetted him and he isn't a "bad apple" (love the punn). 

 

I would, we have track record of getting rid of bad players.

If the Saints were to sign him I would trust in our personnel dept and absolutely give him a chance, however the leash would be short.

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On 1/5/2018 at 6:42 PM, whodatworm23 said:

If the Saints were to sign him I would trust in our personnel dept and absolutely give him a chance, however the leash would be short.

Potential to be diamond in the ruff! I'd venture to say that if we brought him and AND if he panned out (personal issues), he'd probably beat out Crawley and Breaux for number 2 corner. Loads of potential here.

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1 hour ago, jcvoodoo said:

Potential to be diamond in the ruff! I'd venture to say that if we brought him and AND if he panned out (personal issues), he'd probably beat out Crawley and Breaux for number 2 corner. Loads of potential here.

@jcvoodoo in the house!

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On 12/30/2017 at 1:34 PM, Mid Iowa said:

The only news coming out of New York, that I believe, is the record of their teams.

The team has been poorly coached for several years now (basically since Caughlin left), obviously poorly managed, and the talent and attitude within is likely skewed due to some of these factors.

I'll just wait for the coaches & scouts to watch film, and then the results of the interview process.

I'm always for a new talent, and like @navysaintsfan said, sometimes a change in scenery (I'll add "and culture") is all that's needed. And sometimes a leopard doesn't change it's spots. 

Another look in the rear view mirror.

Do we like the Eli Apple move now? He is really plugging in to the system now, and we haven't heard a peep about his attitude, other than he's working really hard and learning quickly.

Perhaps being on a winning team with different coaches makes a difference after all.

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Damn I called it like 10 months in advance... I forgot i even made this thread.  Good find @Mid Iowa

Also for what we paid this was a steal and he is fitting in nicely with our already established players.  Winning team, familiar teammates, better culture, it helps a lot.

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9 hours ago, Raves said:

Damn I called it like 10 months in advance... I forgot i even made this thread.  Good find @Mid Iowa

Also for what we paid this was a steal and he is fitting in nicely with our already established players.  Winning team, familiar teammates, better culture, it helps a lot.

Right on. Sometimes we wiff, and sometimes we nail it! I don't think Apple is an all pro, or ever will be, but he's sure an upgrade to what we had.

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Apple has been a significant upgrade at CB#2. It’s a huge reason for our success. He’s not a superstar, but sometimes not being a liability is good enough. 

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He has been real solid. All the beat writer guys delving into the advanced stats are praising him. All I know is, he doesn't get beat much and when he does, he makes the tackle fast. Can't ask for much more from a CB in today's game.

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He's starting to find his confidence again. Starting to play with that same swag that made him a 1st round pick. @Raves nailed it. Maybe he just needed a change of scenery and to be around some guys he's familiar with. I couldn't be happier for him. 

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Speaking of supplanting Crawley, that endzone pick last night was eerily reminiscent of that game icing Victor Cruz catch early in the 2016 season. Crawley in perfect position for a game changing pick (a game we definitely could/should have won) and Cruz just Moss's him.

Now, Cam might have hand delivered that ball personally to Apple with how under thrown it was, but it was still a nice play and that's just where we seem to be as a defense / as a team right now. Everyone is playing with that certain swagger.

#ELITE Apple

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