Acgott Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: Time and time again it has been shown that you don’t have to draft a QB top 5 to be successful. You can say that about all the positions... Of past 10 seasons or so... the top “ “ has never won the SB. RB- AP/Tomlinson WR: Calvin, Fitzgerald, Moss TE: Gates, Gonzalez LT: Joe,Trent, Tyron OG: Will Shields, Steve Hutchinson C: Frederick, Mack DE/OLB- Peppers, Watt, Mack- here you find the most Super Bowl champions outside QB such as Von Miller, Strahan, etc. DT: Aaron Donald, Damon Harrison MLB: Urlacher, Seau, Willis, Zach Thomss CB: Champ Bailey, Nnamdi, Revis, S: Dawkins, Berry- probsbly has third most champions- Troy, Reed, Lynch, Thomas, Etc. Now let’s look at the top QBs of past few years Brady, Peyton, Eli, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Russell, Flacco then Rivers, Romo, Ryan Having a great QB absolutely propels you into the SB conversation every year, more than every other position. Our QB is 37 years old coming off a bad year. We have the opportunity to select the top first or second QB in the draft. This is a no brainer situation if they think the top QB is a franchise QB. If not go pass rusher. #NumbersNeverLie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 @Kip SmithersI know your post was about the draft, but it works for every single position. QB is the most important. We can’t skip this opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 24 minutes ago, Acgott said: You can say that about all the positions... Of past 10 seasons or so... the top “ “ has never won the SB. RB- AP/Tomlinson WR: Calvin, Fitzgerald, Moss TE: Gates, Gonzalez LT: Joe,Trent, Tyron OG: Will Shields, Steve Hutchinson C: Frederick, Mack DE/OLB- Peppers, Watt, Mack- here you find the most Super Bowl champions outside QB such as Von Miller, Strahan, etc. DT: Aaron Donald, Damon Harrison MLB: Urlacher, Seau, Willis, Zach Thomss CB: Champ Bailey, Nnamdi, Revis, S: Dawkins, Berry- probsbly has third most champions- Troy, Reed, Lynch, Thomas, Etc. Now let’s look at the top QBs of past few years Brady, Peyton, Eli, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Russell, Flacco then Rivers, Romo, Ryan Having a great QB absolutely propels you into the SB conversation every year, more than every other position. Our QB is 37 years old coming off a bad year. We have the opportunity to select the top first or second QB in the draft. This is a no brainer situation if they think the top QB is a franchise QB. If not go pass rusher. #NumbersNeverLie First off I never said you can do this with just any QB. I said drafting a QB high isn’t the only option. And BTW SBs are such a bad metric. Why not go by all-pros? What I don’t get is that people are like let’s draft a QB at 2 and then let him sit while he gets ready. That’s such a waste. If you’re gonna do that then you might as well do that with Webb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 11 hours ago, Go_Giants said: Not only am I the one that believes that. I believe I was the person that first said it. There is no position other than QB that can't be upgraded the next year after or the year after. Being in the right situation to draft a franchise QB does not come around often unless your the Cleveland Browns. I see no drawback to getting the QB of the future now, sit him down for a year then the year after when the team is built up a bit then play him. The drawback to doing things your way, building up the team then getting a QB is as I and others have said, you will be putting us in QB purgatory for the next decade or so. I'm not saying we don't need to draft a quarterback but I'm also not ready to toss our rookie under the bus when I've got no idea how he'll work out in the future. I even drafted Mitch for the Giants in last years mock draft, but I also spent money on beefing up the problem areas in free agency, if the giants can fix the problems in free agency, I'd have no problem at all drafting a "potential" franchise with the 2nd overall pick. However, I still believe Manning can win and that this season was due to poor management and that part of the cancer is removed. Give the team an offensive line and we're back in business for the next 2 years at least and perhaps longer if this rookie we've got works out. I don't think doing this is putting anything in purgatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 47 minutes ago, ny92jefferis said: I'm not saying we don't need to draft a quarterback but I'm also not ready to toss our rookie under the bus when I've got no idea how he'll work out in the future. I even drafted Mitch for the Giants in last years mock draft, but I also spent money on beefing up the problem areas in free agency, if the giants can fix the problems in free agency, I'd have no problem at all drafting a "potential" franchise with the 2nd overall pick. However, I still believe Manning can win and that this season was due to poor management and that part of the cancer is removed. Give the team an offensive line and we're back in business for the next 2 years at least and perhaps longer if this rookie we've got works out. I don't think doing this is putting anything in purgatory The QB is by far the most position. We have the best opportunity for a top QB here. We need to believe the our new GM and HC will put the team in the best situation to succeed. Even if you think Eli can play another year, that is short term thinking. We have the best opportunity for the future. Our team had 3 wins, that is not a one year turnaround. We cannot go all in again for another year of Eli to Playoffs. If for some reason, they don’t think the QB has the best value, then they must go DL. OL is not an impact position. It relies they most on the other 4 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzane Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Acgott said: You can say that about all the positions... Of past 10 seasons or so... the top “ “ has never won the SB. RB- AP/Tomlinson WR: Calvin, Fitzgerald, Moss TE: Gates, Gonzalez LT: Joe,Trent, Tyron OG: Will Shields, Steve Hutchinson C: Frederick, Mack DE/OLB- Peppers, Watt, Mack- here you find the most Super Bowl champions outside QB such as Von Miller, Strahan, etc. DT: Aaron Donald, Damon Harrison MLB: Urlacher, Seau, Willis, Zach Thomss CB: Champ Bailey, Nnamdi, Revis, S: Dawkins, Berry- probsbly has third most champions- Troy, Reed, Lynch, Thomas, Etc. Now let’s look at the top QBs of past few years Brady, Peyton, Eli, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Russell, Flacco then Rivers, Romo, Ryan Having a great QB absolutely propels you into the SB conversation every year, more than every other position. Our QB is 37 years old coming off a bad year. We have the opportunity to select the top first or second QB in the draft. This is a no brainer situation if they think the top QB is a franchise QB. If not go pass rusher. #NumbersNeverLie Good Gosh! That's a pretty comprehensive list! I could've maybe come up with Odell Beckham Jr. for never having won a Super Bowl, but it would have taken me until Week 1 of the 2018 season to think all those others up! 4 hours ago, Acgott said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: First off I never said you can do this with just any QB. I said drafting a QB high isn’t the only option. And BTW SBs are such a bad metric. Why not go by all-pros? What I don’t get is that people are like let’s draft a QB at 2 and then let him sit while he gets ready. That’s such a waste. If you’re gonna do that then you might as well do that with Webb. The point is any position in the top 5 you are going to have booms and busts. The greatest at their position cannot propel their team to a SB. QB has by far the biggest impact on the game. In regards to not playing the QBOTF right away. The difference in raw talent between Webb and the #2 pick should be huge. This isn’t a short term investment, its long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Acgott said: The QB is by far the most position. We have the best opportunity for a top QB here. We need to believe the our new GM and HC will put the team in the best situation to succeed. Even if you think Eli can play another year, that is short term thinking. We have the best opportunity for the future. Our team had 3 wins, that is not a one year turnaround. We cannot go all in again for another year of Eli to Playoffs. If for some reason, they don’t think the QB has the best value, then they must go DL. OL is not an impact position. It relies they most on the other 4 players. Acgott I appreciate your opinion, I really do. Love to hear other people's thoughts but I also think you're hanging your emotions on this season and this season alone. Yes, I agree it was horrible to watch, but the reason was poor management, it wasn't Eli it wasn't the defense. You can nitpick any position, especially this season but in the grand scheme of things, it was the head coach not willing to make changes, not willing to address the issues, not willing to bench the ones that needed to be benched. It was the general managers draft habits, his unwillingness to address the offensive line, his commitment to keep Flowers at tackle. It just all came crashing down this season and it sucked. We were 11-5 last year, teams can turn on a dime in the this league we still have the core of our team in place. We should be back healthy again. Like I said, I'm not going to go BALLISTIC if we draft a quarterback, but I think if we don't address the offensive line and do it right, it isn't going to matter if we draft a quarterback or not. The good news is that this GM seems to see the problems already and has been addressing those issues as we move forward, I'm already hearing he's committed to fixing the line issues with "hog mollies"...haha. So, I'm optimistic about the future. Draft whomever but the line must get addressed and not just part of it, or half of it, but the entire line across the board from left to right as well as depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 39 minutes ago, Acgott said: The point is any position in the top 5 you are going to have booms and busts. The greatest at their position cannot propel their team to a SB. QB has by far the biggest impact on the game. In regards to not playing the QBOTF right away. The difference in raw talent between Webb and the #2 pick should be huge. This isn’t a short term investment, its long term. Again, what does the QBs impact got to do with what I said? If you find a good one in the first and a good one later on, at the end of the day you still have a good QB either way. Your second point is all the more reason to look at Webb. Webb was drafted in hopes of being a long term investment. The raw talent is what made him an interesting prospect in the first place. If you’re gonna take a QB at #2 it better be someone who is capable of being a day 1 starter not somebody who is gonna need to sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, ny92jefferis said: Acgott I appreciate your opinion, I really do. Love to hear other people's thoughts but I also think you're hanging your emotions on this season and this season alone. Yes, I agree it was horrible to watch, but the reason was poor management, it wasn't Eli it wasn't the defense. You can nitpick any position, especially this season but in the grand scheme of things, it was the head coach not willing to make changes, not willing to address the issues, not willing to bench the ones that needed to be benched. It was the general managers draft habits, his unwillingness to address the offensive line, his commitment to keep Flowers at tackle. It just all came crashing down this season and it sucked. We were 11-5 last year, teams can turn on a dime in the this league we still have the core of our team in place. We should be back healthy again. Like I said, I'm not going to go BALLISTIC if we draft a quarterback, but I think if we don't address the offensive line and do it right, it isn't going to matter if we draft a quarterback or not. The good news is that this GM seems to see the problems already and has been addressing those issues as we move forward, I'm already hearing he's committed to fixing the line issues with "hog mollies"...haha. So, I'm optimistic about the future. Draft whomever but the line must get addressed and not just part of it, or half of it, but the entire line across the board from left to right as well as depth. You are blaming executives and not the players. This is a team that has missed the playoffs in 5 of the past 6 seasons. That’s with two set of coaches. As you said the core is here. Same core that had the worst season in our history. Last year is an outlier. This year is probably an outlier. That’s 4 straight years without playoffs. i saw Eli missing easy passes this season. I saw him missing easy passes last year. He is 37. We have the number 2 pick. A top QB could be available. But you are right. We need to fix the OL. Just not with the #2 pick. The value isn’t there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said: Again, what does the QBs impact got to do with what I said? If you find a good one in the first and a good one later on, at the end of the day you still have a good QB either way. Your second point is all the more reason to look at Webb. Webb was drafted in hopes of being a long term investment. The raw talent is what made him an interesting prospect in the first place. If you’re gonna take a QB at #2 it better be someone who is capable of being a day 1 starter not somebody who is gonna need to sit. You don’t put all your eggs into one basket. I want as many options as possible to try and make sure we nail the most important position in sports. If we go OL in the first, we are still in the exact same predictment banking on Webb as our future and doesn’t improve the team that much. OL isn’t an impact position. If a QB is not weighted BPA we should draft best pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Acgott said: You are blaming executives and not the players. This is a team that has missed the playoffs in 5 of the past 6 seasons. That’s with two set of coaches. As you said the core is here. Same core that had the worst season in our history. Last year is an outlier. This year is probably an outlier. That’s 4 straight years without playoffs. i saw Eli missing easy passes this season. I saw him missing easy passes last year. He is 37. We have the number 2 pick. A top QB could be available. But you are right. We need to fix the OL. Just not with the #2 pick. The value isn’t there. I didn't say I wasn't blaming players, but I am putting the bulk of this season on the head coach and GM, that were just fired. Throwing the blame at Eli? It would be unfair to evaluate his performance this season with all things considered. Like I said, if the Giants front office feel that drafting a quarterback in the first round is the right move, I'll support it. I'll also support drafting offensive lineman. Value is there and Offensive lineman are impact positions, I'm sure you might be able to get Jerry Reese to agree to that lineman isn't an impact position but Eli Manning and the other quarterbacks and running backs of the world might disagree. The past three draft years, offensive lineman were drafted in the first round 16 times, tied for 3rd in the amount of times drafted over another position. 1st and 2nd were Secondary and Defensive lineman. When broken down, tackle again ranked 3rd for being drafted in the first round. Value is there. Anyway, I'm tired of going back and forth on this. Simply, agree to disagree and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattbags2313 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: First off I never said you can do this with just any QB. I said drafting a QB high isn’t the only option. And BTW SBs are such a bad metric. Why not go by all-pros? What I don’t get is that people are like let’s draft a QB at 2 and then let him sit while he gets ready. That’s such a waste. If you’re gonna do that then you might as well do that with Webb. Tell Aaron Rodgers that. Sometimes it just makes sense to groom someone. This team isn’t win a super bowl first year with a new GM and a completely new staff. I don’t understand the harm in sitting someone until they are ready. It’s worked before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ny92jefferis said: Anyway, I'm tired of going back and forth on this. Simply, agree to disagree and move on. Fair enough but we have a long way to go. The night is dark and full of terror. The draft is 116 days away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Acgott said: Fair enough but we have a long way to go. The night is dark and full of terror. The draft is 116 days away. lol...right. So much can change in terms of team needs this early. I'm just glad this season is behind us, it was a rough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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