Gentlemen, I Think Its Time...Consider Baker Mayfield At #1

[MistaBohmbastic]

3 hours ago, Mind Character said:

SIGH......

And so it begins....

I already can't stomach it really b/c I know this is where this whole thing is heading.

Years later we'll realize how terrible it was that Dorsey told Tony Pauline that he'd "stay away" from Rosen thereby making us forfeit the number 1 QB prospect after we earned it through suffering.

The smiles on Browns fans faces when we draft Baker Mayfield and pass on Rosen and Darnold will only be matched in extremity by the emotion of sickness within me when I hear Mayfield's name announced, Tony Grossi, & Goldhammer celebrate w/ joy, shortly after I will puke....

I'd rather trade down both picks a few spots....pick up major hauls for the future and Select Bradley Chubb with our first pick and Saquon Barkley with our 2nd pick.

Rosen/Darnold & Chubb//Barkley/Fitzpatrick OR Trade down then Chubb & Barkley/Fitzpatrick.

Just as a show of hands...

If your in the Mayfield number 1 camp,

1. Were you a goff or Wentz guy?

2. Were you a Davis Webb guy?

3. Who did you like most out of Trubisky, Deshaun, or Mahomes?

You realize that Grossi and Hammer don't like Mayfield, right?

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

We haven't seen that kind of performance against the Buckeye defense since... well, last night.

 

I haven't watched any games but if you have and can fill in your own blanks it may help sway (I currently have no take) me until I watch the games myself.

For sure...general point was just that those placing primacy on the 1 OSU game being the critical comparison point for the Darnold vs. Mayfield debate are conveniently leaving out the OSU game last year as well as the full context of games for Darnold and Baker this year and last year.

Not talking about you or anyone on here in particular, but just that the OSU game take leaves out a lot of info on the QBs in general and interestingly even has glossed over the fact that  Baker has played OSU before and not fared as well.

That's why I got nothing but respect for you @Thomas5737.... you'll wait for the evidence to come in to form opinion.

Cool thing is people can view the same evidence completely different and form very discrepant opinions and generalizations from the same info. Those debates are awesome and interesting when it comes to sports.

I'm just not down for the 1 or a few game watch, twitter I-told-you-so-isms in our current lives whereby what one sees is just used as confirmation bias  of the popular takes on the QBs.

I'm open to any QB that can help us get to winning including Baker Mayfield.

My concern with him beyond the off the field concerns have everything to do with Blitz avoidance, pocket awareness under pressure, knowledge of defenses to make calls at the line, and the ability to make progressions.

Lincoln Riley is a brilliant offensive mind; however, his offense predicates a spread 1-read pick and stick get the ball out of your hand in a second decision. It's a great offense for protecting one's QB from pressure and as a result Baker rarely has to deal with the adversity of pocket pressure and/or has to do so while progressing through multiple reads. This offense is ready made with a lot of check with me Coach sideline audibles and not in the hands/control of the QB.

Therefore, when pressure really does come all the tape that I've seen of Baker this year and last year has things come completely undone for him; however, he's put in such situations rarely.

To be fair, he is great at progressions with play action calls and throws a beautiful all down field.

My summary take is that all the  play ability things (excluding intangibles like leadership etc) there are to like about Baker in terms of accuracy, deep ball accuracy off of play action, accuracy outside of the pocket...you get with Sam Darnold albeit with a more explosive arm and more athletic elusiveness when running.

Darnold creates more big plays on his own than Baker does within the structure of a beautifully orchestrated spread offensive scheme.

Ultimately, I ask myself if Baker and Sam traded places on teams would one struggle to recreate what the other has done....

While it's all projection and speculation, I believe Darnold in Lincoln Riley's system puts up similar numbers if not exceeds them due to being the bigger, faster, stronger, better arm, more out of pocket creativity athlete.

I don't think Baker could succeed in the more pro-scheme offense that Sam has done for 2 years around the OL, WR, TE, scheme talent that Darnold has.

[Mind Character]

Interesting to consider the pro talent around the QBs the last 2 years on Offense

Baker Mayfield

:2017

LT Orlando Brown Top 15 or even Top 10 pick

Best OL in Big 12

TE Mark Andrews ; Consensus TE1; Top 25 pick

RB Rodney Anderson (Will be top 25 player; 11 TDs over; 1200 yards from scrimmage)

WR CeeDee Lamb (Freshman with over 7 TDs; will be top 25 talent when he comes out)

WR Marquise Brown (Sophomore with 1000 yards and 6 TDs; top 40 player when he comes out.

Top OL

2016

LT Orlando Brown and top OL

RB Joe Mixon ; RB1 would've been a top 15 pick w/o off the field stuff

RB Samaje Perrine 2nd round talent w/ historic RB impact at Oklahoma

WR Dede Westbrook ; Top 15 talent (17TDs; 1600 yards; 4.3, 40 yard dash talent that only fell do to off field issues

---------------------

And Sam Darnold along with Rosen

Sam Darnold

2016

Zach Banner T (4th round pick)

Chad Wheeler T (UFA)

WR JuJu Smith Schuster (Top 50 talent; 2nd round pick)

WR/CB/Offensive Weapon Adoree Jackson (1st rounder and top 15 talent)

2017

No OLine talent and injuries to the remaining talent

RB Ronald Jones (Top 50 talent)

WR Tyler Vaughns (Sophomore Tavon Austin Type will be Top 80 talent)

WR Deontay Burnnet (Junior; will be Top 80 talent when he comes out)

 

Josh Rosen

2016

No One

OT Connor Mcdermot who Myles Garrett destroyed

2017

No One

WR Jordan Lasley (approx. 1200 yards; 8 TD) ***Pointed out by @candyman93

TE Caleb Wilson

OT Kolton Miller (top 85 player?)

 

 

[Aztec Hammer]

Very good posts @Mind Character.

The latter is another reason Josh Rosen is creeping up on the number one spot in my mind. It's highly impressive that he has performed as well as he has with no talent around him and extremely limited mobility. It lends itself to a fairly comfortable assessment of his mental acuity and physical technique as being refined and well developed for the pro game.

 

[candyman93]

@Mind Character I disagree on one thing, Jordan Lasley will get drafted.

[Fatgerman]

54 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

For sure...general point was just that those placing primacy on the 1 OSU game being the critical comparison point for the Darnold vs. Mayfield debate are conveniently leaving out the OSU game last year as well as the full context of games for Darnold and Baker this year and last year.

Not talking about you or anyone on here in particular, but just that the OSU game take leaves out a lot of info on the QBs in general and interestingly even has glossed over the fact that  Baker has played OSU before and not fared as well.

That's why I got nothing but respect for you @Thomas5737.... you'll wait for the evidence to come in to form opinion.

Cool thing is people can view the same evidence completely different and form very discrepant opinions and generalizations from the same info. Those debates are awesome and interesting when it comes to sports.

I'm just not down for the 1 or a few game watch, twitter I-told-you-so-isms in our current lives whereby what one sees is just used as confirmation bias  of the popular takes on the QBs.

I'm open to any QB that can help us get to winning including Baker Mayfield.

My concern with him beyond the off the field concerns have everything to do with Blitz avoidance, pocket awareness under pressure, knowledge of defenses to make calls at the line, and the ability to make progressions.

Lincoln Riley is a brilliant offensive mind; however, his offense predicates a spread 1-read pick and stick get the ball out of your hand in a second decision. It's a great offense for protecting one's QB from pressure and as a result Baker rarely has to deal with the adversity of pocket pressure and/or has to do so while progressing through multiple reads. This offense is ready made with a lot of check with me Coach sideline audibles and not in the hands/control of the QB.

Therefore, when pressure really does come all the tape that I've seen of Baker this year and last year has things come completely undone for him; however, he's put in such situations rarely.

To be fair, he is great at progressions with play action calls and throws a beautiful all down field.

My summary take is that all the  play ability things (excluding intangibles like leadership etc) there are to like about Baker in terms of accuracy, deep ball accuracy off of play action, accuracy outside of the pocket...you get with Sam Darnold albeit with a more explosive arm and more athletic elusiveness when running.

Darnold creates more big plays on his own than Baker does within the structure of a beautifully orchestrated spread offensive scheme.

Ultimately, I ask myself if Baker and Sam traded places on teams would one struggle to recreate what the other has done....

While it's all projection and speculation, I believe Darnold in Lincoln Riley's system puts up similar numbers if not exceeds them due to being the bigger, faster, stronger, better arm, more out of pocket creativity athlete.

I don't think Baker could succeed in the more pro-scheme offense that Sam has done for 2 years around the OL, WR, TE, scheme talent that Darnold has.

I was feeling you til the bigger, faster, stronger, better arm, more out of pocket creativity. Ill give you bigger, but thats all i will concede for now. 1st, faster will have to wait til the combine, but Bakers got wheels and ive seen no tape that shows me Sam is faster. 2nd, height doesnt equal strength, so purely an assumption. 3rd, better arm? Now thats straight up preposterous. Ive seen both throw quite a bit, and Sam dont have all that much zip. Bakers got him there. 3rd, more creativity out of the pocket? Baker makes his living outside of the pocket. Maybe you meant more creativity when the play breaks down, outside of the offense.

I like Sam and I like Baker. And I like you Mindcharacter, you handsome devil. But I gotta be honest with what ive seen.

[Fatgerman]

30 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Very good posts @Mind Character.

The latter is another reason Josh Rosen is creeping up on the number one spot in my mind. It's highly impressive that he has performed as well as he has with no talent around him and extremely limited mobility. It lends itself to a fairly comfortable assessment of his mental acuity and physical technique as being refined and well developed for the pro game.

 

My issue with Rosen is attitude. I watched the 2014 elite 11, and they were saying there what ive always heard about him. Very smart, but know-it-all that does NOT take to coaching, and has felt like hes good enough since day one, not that strive to get better and better. Hell, they wanted to give him MVP from the beginning but his crap mentality forced their hand. Stidham had the best attitude/work ethic/consistency that whole camp. 

[Fatgerman]

17 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

@Mind Character I disagree on one thing, Jordan Lasley will get drafted.

word

[Mind Character]

4 hours ago, candyman93 said:

@Mind Character I disagree on one thing, Jordan Lasley will get drafted.

Facts. Lasley will definitely get drafted.

There were others as well I failed to mention like UCLA OT Connor Mcdermot selected by the patriots I believe in later rounds I think.

There are of course other late risers like OT Kolton Miller that some like...w/ Rosen it was somewhat hyperbole but not far from the reality.

[NateDawg]

We are looking too hard at what Dorsey wants. I’m not going to underestimate the possibility if our bozo owner pounding his fist on the table with an executive order.

[buno67]

42 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

We are looking too hard at what Dorsey wants. I’m not going to underestimate the possibility if our bozo owner pounding his fist on the table with an executive order.

part of me thinks that had to be part of the deal that Dorsey wouldnt have to do things like that, like listen to the owner pound the table for a player. Dorsey was good enough to have options and could of waited to see what the Giants wanted to offer. I think the Browns have given Dorsey exactly what he wants in a job. Just wish they would let it be known what he wants or what he has control off.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 hours ago, buno67 said:

part of me thinks that had to be part of the deal that Dorsey wouldnt have to do things like that, like listen to the owner pound the table for a player. Dorsey was good enough to have options and could of waited to see what the Giants wanted to offer. I think the Browns have given Dorsey exactly what he wants in a job. Just wish they would let it be known what he wants or what he has control off.

Idk man, Haslam gonna Haslam, he can’t help himself.

[H2ThaIzzo]

I think its absurd to knock a prospect because they had more talent around them. The dude still doesn't turn the football over. He still reads the defenses and makes the throws to get to his guys. It's also hilarious to see how inflated someone is making his surrounding players to fit their argument, then leaves Lasley off of UCLA's talented players group when the guy has been one of the toughest receivers in college this season. 

 

I guess Peyton Manning wasn't talented either. It was all James, Faulk, Harrison, Clark, Saturday, Wayne, etc. 

[sdrawkcab321]

I’m good with him. I like his fire. Screw you salty OSU fans. 

[MWil23]

Not to be too much of a conspiracy theorist here, but I’d like to know more about this “undisclosed illness” that he’s had the last week. For a plethora of reasons I’d like to know, and I’m far from an expert and don’t want to offend anyone, but it almost sounds like someone struggling with addiction of some kind. I hope I’m wrong.