Titans sign Dennis Kelly to 3 year extension

[titans0021]

18 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Guess I just haven't been as blown away by him. He's not bad, but I honestly don't believe he's been much more than average. There really wasn't a noticeable difference when Schwenke went in for him last year. 

If they can lock him up on the cheap, then cool...continuity is good. But I won't lose sleep if he signs elsewhere when he hits FA. Between Lewan and Jones, I'm comfortable with the next man up approach.

I think @TitanLegend, and I tend to agree, has been more impressed by his general improvement than anything else. It's not that he's necessarily an elite guard right now, but we're talking about a guy that's only started 19 games in his career and has steadily gotten better and played very well down the stretch. I don't think he's irreplaceable, but I'd be more inclined to let Kline walk.

We've cycled through our share of terrible interior linemen at this point, when you have one that looks to be good and is still 25, you should do what you can to keep him around. With Ben Jones around for three more years and Conklin on a rookie deal, I can't imagine Spain busting the bank given that we should have three fairly reasonably priced offensive lineman at least through 2018, probably 2019.

[ragevsuall17]

1 hour ago, titans0021 said:

I think @TitanLegend, and I tend to agree, has been more impressed by his general improvement than anything else. It's not that he's necessarily an elite guard right now, but we're talking about a guy that's only started 19 games in his career and has steadily gotten better and played very well down the stretch. I don't think he's irreplaceable, but I'd be more inclined to let Kline walk.

We've cycled through our share of terrible interior linemen at this point, when you have one that looks to be good and is still 25, you should do what you can to keep him around. With Ben Jones around for three more years and Conklin on a rookie deal, I can't imagine Spain busting the bank given that we should have three fairly reasonably priced offensive lineman at least through 2018, probably 2019.

Of course... if he can be had for reasonable... bring it on... but previous posts made it seem like he'd moved to a top priority/must sign status.  This past offseason, 5 Gs signed for $8M AAV.  Everyone else was under $3M AAV.  I tend to think he's a part of the latter group... maybe as much as $4M AAV... yeah, why not.  

Is anyone really prepared to pay him about $8M AACV... or $37M over 5 years?  That's what this guy seems to think we should offer him.  Again, I didn't see any drop off those couple games Schwenke took over... and even though I know a LG is not the reason for this following tidbit... the Titans had their 3 highest scoring games during that stretch when Schwenke started... 35, 35, and 47 points.  Again, a LG is not the reason why we scored that many points... so why should we pay one that much money?

Spain is a good guy... keeping him would add continuity... I'm in favor of resigning him... but speaking honestly, he's not much more than a slightly above average starting NFL G.  I'm not spending $37M for that.    

[titans0021]

Just now, ragevsuall17 said:

Of course... if he can be had for reasonable... bring it on... but previous posts made it seem like he'd moved to a top priority/must sign status.  This past offseason, 5 Gs signed for $8M AAV.  Everyone else was under $3M AAV.  I tend to think he's a part of the latter group... maybe as much as $4M AAV... yeah, why not.  

Is anyone really prepared to pay him about $8M AACV... or $37M over 5 years?  That's what this guy seems to think we should offer him.  Again, I didn't see any drop off those couple games Schwenke took over... and even though I know a LG is not the reason for this following tidbit... the Titans had their 3 highest scoring games during that stretch when Schwenke started... 35, 35, and 47 points.  Again, a LG is not the reason why we scored that many points... so why should we pay one that much money?

Spain is a good guy... keeping him would add continuity... I'm in favor of resigning him... but speaking honestly, he's not much more than a slightly above average starting NFL G.  I'm not spending $37M for that.    

It depends honestly. Right now, there's no way he touches $37 million over five years. Another good season could put him near it. I'd lock him up for 5 years, $25 million today and be done with it. A good, young player eating up on average 3% of your cap space isn't going to make me bat an eye. Good starting football players get paid on the FA market. The cap is up to $167 million these days right? Even at $7M per year you're talking about 4% of your cap space on a guy.

Personally, I'd love to see something get worked out now. Assuming the unit as a whole plays well this year (and it better), the price will only go up as he gets closer to hitting the market. Ted Larsen got paid $5.6 million per as a 30-year old that's not really better than Spain is at the moment. If we wait until the offseason, I'm guessing $37M over five is probably a fairly decent guess.

[ragevsuall17]

12 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

Ted Larsen got paid $5.6 million per as a 30-year old that's not really better than Spain is at the moment. If we wait until the offseason, I'm guessing $37M over five is probably a fairly decent guess.

He actually got 5.6M total... under $2M per.

And yeah, I agree Spain is better than Larsen... but that's not saying much... And if anyone really believes that's a fair comparison... is it really worth 30M more... or 5M more per year?

Again... if it's me... I'm not looking to give him more money than we gave Jones.  

[titans0021]

Just now, ragevsuall17 said:

He actually got 5.6M total... under $2M per.

And yeah, I agree Spain is better than Larsen... but that's not saying much... And if anyone really believes that's a fair comparison... is it really worth 30M more... or 5M more per year?

Again... if it's me... I'm not looking to give him more money than we gave Jones.  

Ah, that makes infinitely more sense. 

My main concern is him getting the Ron Leary treatment. A good, but not great guard that gets paid as a result of being a part of an elite unit. I spent too many years watching Eugene Amano to ever forget just how much of a negative one player can have on the entire unit though. 

But really, he's better and significantly younger than guys like Andre Smith or Jermon Bushrod at $3+ million per, but he's not on the level of T.J. Lang or Larry Warford. Given that he's 25, I'd expect he'd be in the middle, but slightly higher end. Which is putting us at what, $5.5-6 million per? We got incredibly fortunate with Jones, I just can't envision him signing for less than $5M per.

I'm also just extremely hesitant to shuffling the offensive line and having something go wrong. Every time Marcus takes a hit I'm going to be terrified. Forever.

[ragevsuall17]

11 hours ago, titans0021 said:

My main concern is him getting the Ron Leary treatment. A good, but not great guard that gets paid as a result of being a part of an elite unit. I spent too many years watching Eugene Amano to ever forget just how much of a negative one player can have on the entire unit though. 

 

That is the conundrum. 

Overpay a player whose success may be more closely correlated to the system and other players in place... or find out that he was indeed an integral part of the team once he's gone.  

Just based on the continued success of the offense once while Schwenke filled in for him, I'd say that while it's not 100% the latter, it leans that way.  Considering his age, continuity, and unit success, I could live with 4/$20, putting him at that $5 AAY.  In addition to anything else, it sends a positive message to the players... draft position doesn't matter, work hard, do your job, and you will be rewarded.

Having said all that, I just can't justify $37M... even if that's just $2.5M extra per than what I'd be ok with... I don't see him a core player... a guy you build your team around.  That 2.5M could go towards that core, towards depth, towards upgrading another position, etc.  We're in great cap shape right now, we have to keep it there, every 100k counts, especially with the looming FA status of some guys...Lewan, Casey, Rak, Morgan, Walker, Matthews are all coming up in less than 24 months... at the same time Mariota's option kicks in (if he's not signed long term, it'll still be $20M+).

[titans0021]

4 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

That is the conundrum. 

Overpay a player whose success may be more closely correlated to the system and other players in place... or find out that he was indeed an integral part of the team once he's gone.  

Just based on the continued success of the offense once while Schwenke filled in for him, I'd say that while it's not 100% the latter, it leans that way.  Considering his age, continuity, and unit success, I could live with 4/$20, putting him at that $5 AAY.  In addition to anything else, it sends a positive message to the players... draft position doesn't matter, work hard, do your job, and you will be rewarded.

Having said all that, I just can't justify $37M... even if that's just $2.5M extra per than what I'd be ok with... I don't see him a core player... a guy you build your team around.  That 2.5M could go towards that core, towards depth, towards upgrading another position, etc.  We're in great cap shape right now, we have to keep it there, every 100k counts, especially with the looming FA status of some guys...Lewan, Casey, Rak, Morgan, Walker, Matthews are all coming up in less than 24 months... at the same time Mariota's option kicks in (if he's not signed long term, it'll still be $20M+).

I think, for me, is that part of it is that no interior offensive lineman contract will ever be worse than the Levitre deal. So by comparison, anything we give Spain can't be that bad.

Oh wait, I forgot about the 5 year, $25+ million deal we gave Eugene Amano in 2010. Yeah, Spain's can never be terrible graded on that scale lol.

[titans0021]

Yeah, I'm fine with that.