Giants to pick #2 in 2018 NFL Draft

[Kip Smithers]

2 hours ago, w4rrior723 said:

I would also be content with Nelson. But moreso if we traded down a couple spots at least. If you're picking at 2, you should really be getting the most impactful player possible. Barkley would impact the team in far more ways than Nelson. The fact that Dallas has studs on the o-line AND a serviceable backup RB in Morris yet their offense still struggled without Zeke goes to show how valuable he is. Just look at Daks numbers with and without Zeke. It's pretty staggering. 

Also, Orleans Darkwa managed to run for 750 on 4.4 ypc behind our "atrocious" line. Orleans FRIGGIN Darkwa. If he was getting carries all year he would've had a very solid year, and it likely would've opened up for our passing game, as well. If he could do that, imagine what a talent like Barkley could do in a similar situation.

FYI You're all making solid points. I don't know all the answers, and enjoy reading everyone's perspective. At the end of the day, we all want the same thing... and that's to get the Giants back to their winning ways.

Dallas’ line regresssd that’s why. Tyron Smith has injury issues and were forced to play a back up who was worse than Flowers. They lost Ronald Leary, who was a key guy for them. Collins wasn’t as good as they thought he’d be in his first season too. That wasn’t the same o-line. 

That’s all well and good he averaged 4.4 but it’s misleading because our run game was never consistent. A good o-line opens up our offense not a RB. We said that Marshall would open up our offense, he didn’t albeit small sample. We thought that having Engram would make our offense impossible to stop and we were very stoppable. That position can be addressed with other players. 

Also, this is not addressed to you, but why on Earth would we let Pugh go? He’s by far our best lineman and no draft pick will be an upgrade on him? His versatility is huge for us. 

[w4rrior723]

44 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Dallas’ line regresssd that’s why. Tyron Smith has injury issues and were forced to play a back up who was worse than Flowers. They lost Ronald Leary, who was a key guy for them. Collins wasn’t as good as they thought he’d be in his first season too. That wasn’t the same o-line. 

That’s all well and good he averaged 4.4 but it’s misleading because our run game was never consistent. A good o-line opens up our offense not a RB. We said that Marshall would open up our offense, he didn’t albeit small sample. We thought that having Engram would make our offense impossible to stop and we were very stoppable. That position can be addressed with other players. 

Also, this is not addressed to you, but why on Earth would we let Pugh go? He’s by far our best lineman and no draft pick will be an upgrade on him? His versatility is huge for us. 

Zeke was still impactful and his presence was undoubtedly felt when he was on the field. He's the single most important player on that offense. 

You mentioned Marshall and Engram. The thing is no matter how crazy the passing numbers get in this league, establishing the run and stopping the run are still the #1 priorities on offense and defense. A dynamic RB that keeps an extra man on the box and DBs eyes on him make life exponentially easier for everyone in the passing game. 

Btw I fully agree that we need to build up the trenches. But aside from the Notre Dame guys, there's a very small drop off in talent when it comes to 2nd and 3rd round lineman. We can definitely get solid OL at that point in the draft while still taking Barkley.

I agree on Pugh. We can't afford to lose our only consistently good lineman. He's worth whatever he costs. I'd like to bring back Richburg as well if he can be had for a reasonable price.

[Kip Smithers]

7 minutes ago, w4rrior723 said:

Zeke was still impactful and his presence was undoubtedly felt when he was on the field. He's the single most important player on that offense. 

You mentioned Marshall and Engram. The thing is no matter how crazy the passing numbers get in this league, establishing the run and stopping the run are still the #1 priorities on offense and defense. A dynamic RB that keeps an extra man on the box and DBs eyes on him make life exponentially easier for everyone in the passing game. 

Btw I fully agree that we need to build up the trenches. But aside from the Notre Dame guys, there's a very small drop off in talent when it comes to 2nd and 3rd round lineman. We can definitely get solid OL at that point in the draft while still taking Barkley.

I agree on Pugh. We can't afford to lose our only consistently good lineman. He's worth whatever he costs. I'd like to bring back Richburg as well if he can be had for a reasonable price.

I think that dynamic RB can be found elsewhere tbh. Though we need to wait till FA as well. See what we do there.

[minutemancl]

24 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

I think that dynamic RB can be found elsewhere tbh. Though we need to wait till FA as well. See what we do there.

IMO Jerrick Mckinnon would be a perfect addition. Makes a lot of sense. He's been severely underutilized in MIN as well. I think he can be a starting back. 

[w4rrior723]

5 hours ago, minutemancl said:

IMO Jerrick Mckinnon would be a perfect addition. Makes a lot of sense. He's been severely underutilized in MIN as well. I think he can be a starting back. 

McKinnon is a Shane Vereen clone. He's a good 3rd down RB. Not a game changer.

[Go_Giants]

On 1/25/2018 at 7:11 PM, bzane said:

Well, Gosh- @Kip Smithers- how do you feel about Davis Webb? How do any of you smart fans feel? I for one have never quite believed he is going to be an NFL starter. Webb's ceiling, it seems to me, is as a solid backup. The kind of a guy you can win the odd game with, but not all you want in your starter. I'm not talking franchise guy, here- just can he be an NFL starting QB? I have my doubts- his lower-drafted status, the way they're always touting his work ethic, how he follows Eli around, etc- seems like if he were going to be a good NFL QB you'd behearing about all these great throws he's making in practice. Not sure myself- wondered how others felt. @Acgott  @minutemancl @w4rrior723 @GMENNATION @Gmen @Shockey1979 @YogiBiz @Go_Giants

For me the same people that spent a 3rd round pick for Davis Webb were the same that traded up to get Ryan Nassib in the 4th round.  While I am not going to say Davis Webb is the next Ryan Nassib  there is no way Dave Gettleman should depend on Davis to be the future of the Giants. I also feel if there was anything special about Davis Webb he would have saw some playing time at some point. Mara even told his GM and Coach that he wanted to see what the other QB can do at some point, I am sure he was more talking about Davis than Geno. The fact that even after Eli was benched the coaching staff still could not find a way to get Davis some playing time gives me a lot of doubt about him.

[Kip Smithers]

4 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

For me the same people that spent a 3rd round pick for Davis Webb were the same that traded up to get Ryan Nassib in the 4th round.  While I am not going to say Davis Webb is the next Ryan Nassib  there is no way Dave Gettleman should depend on Davis to be the future of the Giants. I also feel if there was anything special about Davis Webb he would have saw some playing time at some point. Mara even told his GM and Coach that he wanted to see what the other QB can do at some point, I am sure he was more talking about Davis than Geno. The fact that even after Eli was benched the coaching staff still could not find a way to get Davis some playing time gives me a lot of doubt about him.

I don’t think him not playing is an indictment against him. He was third string all year and had no practice time whatsoever. He came out college with one full year starting and he played in a very QB friendly offense. He’s a project. Green Bay had Rodgers and even with the 8-8s abd 4-12 seasons they had with him on the roster he barely threw a pass. Even with Rodgers there they still took a QB in the second round in 2008. It was understood out of college that he needed to sit. You saw the uproar when Eli got benched and the team seemed to be hell bent on keeping Eli in the game as long as we were competitive.

[GMENNATION]

I know we never trade back but it is possible this year. It all depends on their evaluation of the QBs in this draft. A QB is getting taken at #2 but if we don't fall in love with any of the guys, we will get a king's ransom for the pick. 

[Go_Giants]

3 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

I don’t think him not playing is an indictment against him. He was third string all year and had no practice time whatsoever. He came out college with one full year starting and he played in a very QB friendly offense. He’s a project. Green Bay had Rodgers and even with the 8-8s abd 4-12 seasons they had with him on the roster he barely threw a pass. Even with Rodgers there they still took a QB in the second round in 2008. It was understood out of college that he needed to sit. You saw the uproar when Eli got benched and the team seemed to be hell bent on keeping Eli in the game as long as we were competitive.

Whoa one second there. If I am not mistaken aren't you the person that said if our 1st round pick is not starting it is pretty much a waste? If you are then no you can't use the Aaron Rodgers defense. Because if you feel it is a legitimate defense then  the same needs to apply  now if the Giants take a QB with the first pick and let him sit a year under Eli.

Now as for it not being an indictment against him, why not? I am not say he should have been starting the last 3 three games of the season. But couldn't he have a played at least a series or two? I would have been happy if he was given the last  series before the half then the first series in the 3rd quarter. 

I can accept he is a project but come on, he had all of training camp,  preseason, most of the NFL season and he was supposed to be watching Eli like a hawk. Is it asking too much for  him to know just 3-5 plays that we could have seen for just a series or two? I don't think it is. The fact that this did not happen is another reason why Reese, Mcadoo and  Spagnuolo had to go and a new brain trust put in.

[Kip Smithers]

51 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

Whoa one second there. If I am not mistaken aren't you the person that said if our 1st round pick is not starting it is pretty much a waste? If you are then no you can't use the Aaron Rodgers defense. Because if you feel it is a legitimate defense then  the same needs to apply  now if the Giants take a QB with the first pick and let him sit a year under Eli.

Now as for it not being an indictment against him, why not? I am not say he should have been starting the last 3 three games of the season. But couldn't he have a played at least a series or two? I would have been happy if he was given the last  series before the half then the first series in the 3rd quarter. 

I can accept he is a project but come on, he had all of training camp,  preseason, most of the NFL season and he was supposed to be watching Eli like a hawk. Is it asking too much for  him to know just 3-5 plays that we could have seen for just a series or two? I don't think it is. The fact that this did not happen is another reason why Reese, Mcadoo and  Spagnuolo had to go and a new brain trust put in.

No I said you can’t pick at #2 and have him sit. I said he has to be an instant impact player. Rodgers was picked #24.

A series or two? First off, that shows nothing. You can’t evaluate anything out of that. Secondly, when Spags took over he said Eli is the starter and that he will be in the game as long as they feel that we can win. They had no interest in tanking,much to our displeasure. Also on that topic, Spags was also auditioning for the HC job so he’s gonna go with the guy that gives him the best chance to win. Thirdly putting him in would’ve been a recipe for disaster never mind the small sample. I get the need to evaluate him but it doesn’t mean you ignore that it will not bode well because he’s almost certainly gonna struggle and then what have you got? It’s a no win situation. 

[Go_Giants]

4 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

No I said you can’t pick at #2 and have him sit. I said he has to be an instant impact player. Rodgers was picked #24.

A series or two? First off, that shows nothing. You can’t evaluate anything out of that. Secondly, when Spags took over he said Eli is the starter and that he will be in the game as long as they feel that we can win. They had no interest in tanking,much to our displeasure. Also on that topic, Spags was also auditioning for the HC job so he’s gonna go with the guy that gives him the best chance to win. Thirdly putting him in would’ve been a recipe for disaster never mind the small sample. I get the need to evaluate him but it doesn’t mean you ignore that it will not bode well because he’s almost certainly gonna struggle and then what have you got? It’s a no win situation. 

I am not saying you can tell everything from a series or two, but you can see somethings. A little of something is whole lot better than nothing. It is not like  he  would be going  against the Jacksonsivlle defense. Perhaps Spags might have had more of a chance of being the coach if he was able to give the owner one of the things he wanted which was to see Davis.  

If a GM believes with the #2 pick he has a franchise QB but that QB needs time to develop he is not going to pass on him to get another position that can make an impact. A franchise QB is the exception to any rule. I could almost see your thinking if this team was just one impact player a way from being a Superbowl team, but it is not. On defense we have the defensive line and  Landon Collins everything else is a question mark (even more so if we switch to 3-4 defense). On offense the only players we have that are Probowl caliber is Odell and maybe Evan Engram. 

[Bballbkd]

I think all signs are pointing to Barkley. Shurmur ran the ball alot last year... 2nd in rushing attempts. Cleveland seems to be looking quarterback. 

 

Oh and it's good to be back on the forum

[Kip Smithers]

49 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

I am not saying you can tell everything from a series or two, but you can see somethings. A little of something is whole lot better than nothing. It is not like  he  would be going  against the Jacksonsivlle defense. Perhaps Spags might have had more of a chance of being the coach if he was able to give the owner one of the things he wanted which was to see Davis.  

If a GM believes with the #2 pick he has a franchise QB but that QB needs time to develop he is not going to pass on him to get another position that can make an impact. A franchise QB is the exception to any rule. I could almost see your thinking if this team was just one impact player a way from being a Superbowl team, but it is not. On defense we have the defensive line and  Landon Collins everything else is a question mark (even more so if we switch to 3-4 defense). On offense the only players we have that are Probowl caliber is Odell and maybe Evan Engram. 

Disagree. I don’t think a series or two does anything in terms of whether to use the pick on a QB. He does well, you gonna go all in based on or two series? He’s inexperienced and he’d be playing with practice squad players, trust me it’d feel like he’s going up against the Jags defense.

The owner wants wins, he doesn’t interfere in who’s playing. That’s all he really cares about. And that was Spags wanted to deliver. If you draft a QB at #2 with the intention that he’s gonna sit then that guy isn’t worth the pick quite frankly. If we had no QB then yeah I’d get it but we do. 

[minutemancl]

Why are we under the impression that a QB taken at 2 wouldn't play this year? Eli has absolutely regressed. With some help on the OL, a new offensive scheme, and Shurmur, he should improve over last year. But how much is that? What happens if the team is great but QB play is subpar and holds us back? We need to invest at QB and get a legitimate potential starter. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, or Jackson. 

[Bballbkd]

49 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Why are we under the impression that a QB taken at 2 wouldn't play this year? Eli has absolutely regressed. With some help on the OL, a new offensive scheme, and Shurmur, he should improve over last year. But how much is that? What happens if the team is great but QB play is subpar and holds us back? We need to invest at QB and get a legitimate potential starter. Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, or Jackson. 

Then we have a team that's 8-8. Go into next year's draft and trade up to get a quarterback you love, but in my opinion, having the number 2 overall pick, you go with the sure fire pick.  You want the next Adrian Peterson or do you want one of the QBs with questions across the board? 

 

Taking the wrong QB can set you back 5 years. That's straight out of gettlemans mouth.