With the 5th pick in the NFL draft the Broncos select....

[germ-x]

9 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

 

Assuming Darnold and the two Joshes, in some order, go 1-3, then I think the pick will come down to Mayfield, Barkley, or Chubb. Trading down is an option as well of course, but I think Nelson is very unlikely at this point. Never really thought Elway would take a Guard at 5.

A QB (not Mayfield) is my hope.  After that Barkley or Chubb.  I’ve said many time, don’t mind Nelson, but don’t like the value in a deep OL class.

I also don’t disagree with Elway not taking an OG, but I also didn’t ever see Elway investing $36 million in a 6 foot average QB with 1 average season under his belt.

[paul-mac]

9 minutes ago, germ-x said:

A QB (not Mayfield) is my hope.  After that Barkley or Chubb.  I’ve said many time, don’t mind Nelson, but don’t like the value in a deep OL class.

I also don’t disagree with Elway not taking an OG, but I also didn’t ever see Elway investing $36 million in a 6 foot average QB with 1 average season under his belt.

 

I think average is being generous to Keenum. As you said he was average last year which is his upside. Think of it like this, EVERYTHING went right for him last year. He came in basically to be the third guy and only became the starter because Bradford went down whilst Bridgewater was still rehabbing, was playing on the best roster in the NFL and still only managed to be average. 

 

Having said that, it’s probably still a better move than giving Cousins - who I think is a similar talent to our old friend Kyle Orton - a ridiculous $27m a year.

 

If you exclude last year then Keenum basically had the same career as Siemian. In fact maybe Siemian was MORE highly regarded than Case Keenum. I’m beginning to wonder if we should have just spent the $18m upgrading other positions, kept Siemian as the bridge guy and drafted a QB.

 

As it is you’re either paying a guy $18m a year to be the backup (let’s face it, if we take a QB at 5 then he’s going to be starting in the very near future. Maybe not week 1, but if Case is the week 1 starter then the minute he strings together a bad run he’s out), or an even scarier alternative is that the franchise are actually gonna try and make it work with Keenum as the franchise QB. Now if we view Keenum and Siemian’s talent as being equal, I’d much rather have Siemian because then at least you spend the extra $18m surrounding him with talent. This has the potential to get real ugly. 

[germ-x]

14 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

 

I think average is being generous to Keenum. As you said he was average last year which is his upside. Think of it like this, EVERYTHING went right for him last year. He came in basically to be the third guy and only became the starter because Bradford went down whilst Bridgewater was still rehabbing, was playing on the best roster in the NFL and still only managed to be average. 

 

Having said that, it’s probably still a better move than giving Cousins - who I think is a similar talent to our old friend Kyle Orton - a ridiculous $27m a year.

 

If you exclude last year then Keenum basically had the same career as Siemian. In fact maybe Siemian was MORE highly regarded than Case Keenum. I’m beginning to wonder if we should have just spent the $18m upgrading other positions, kept Siemian as the bridge guy and drafted a QB.

 

As it is you’re either paying a guy $18m a year to be the backup (let’s face it, if we take a QB at 5 then he’s going to be starting in the very near future. Maybe not week 1, but if Case is the week 1 starter then the minute he strings together a bad run he’s out), or an even scarier alternative is that the franchise are actually gonna try and make it work with Keenum as the franchise QB. Now if we view Keenum and Siemian’s talent as being equal, I’d much rather have Siemian because then at least you spend the extra $18m surrounding him with talent. This has the potential to get real ugly. 

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  Everything went right for Keenum.  Had weapons around him, a running game, and a decent OL.  Elway is going to replicate that and cross his fingers the defense maintains from last year.  I read a quote from him where he basically said that exact thing in regards to the defense.  Hopefully we can maintain if not better.  Denver’s defense wasn’t as bad as the 22 rank in PPG, a lot of that came from an awful offense that turned the ball over as much as anyone in the league.  Elway is banking on a better offense to maintain or improve the defense.  Which is why I think, unless a QB falls and it’s a QB Elway (maybe more importantly Kubiak) is enomored with Denver will go offense (Barkley/Nelson).

[BroncoBruin]

I don't think that this takes Denver out of the Nelson sweepstakes at all. With McGovern they could scrap together a decent starting 5 for sure. But there is absolutely no depth behind those 5. McGovern as a bench utility G/C is better value, gives us a player of some quality off the bench and really solidifies the interior. 

[AKRNA]

29 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I don't think that this takes Denver out of the Nelson sweepstakes at all. With McGovern they could scrap together a decent starting 5 for sure. But there is absolutely no depth behind those 5. McGovern as a bench utility G/C is better value, gives us a player of some quality off the bench and really solidifies the interior. 

I think you've nailed it. Drafting Nelson now would turn a disaster area on this team a year ago to a real solid strength. I've said the same about McGovern. What a great backup for our interior OL. An OL of

LT-Bolles

LG-Nelson

C-Paradis

RG-Leary

RT-Veldheer

Add McGovern as an interior 6th man and you've got a very good OL Now you can start drafting mid-late round picks annually and develop them.

I can't imagine a better way to maximize the Keenum/Lynch/Kelly abilities at QB. Our stable of RB's is just fine. A line like that would get them an extra 3-4 yards before contact improvement over last year and a huge step up in pass pro. Count me in!

We've gone from disaster to big, mean, athletic and powerful. What a lovely change that would be. By the way, Veldheer is still fairly young for an OT. Anybody know anything about his recent injury history? How 'bout you @Broncofan, or you UK? You guys are our medical specialists.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, AKRNA said:

I think you've nailed it. Drafting Nelson now would turn a disaster area on this team a year ago to a real solid strength. I've said the same about McGovern. What a great backup for our interior OL. An OL of

LT-Bolles

LG-Nelson

C-Paradis

RG-Leary

RT-Veldheer

Add McGovern as an interior 6th man and you've got a very good OL Now you can start drafting mid-late round picks annually and develop them.

I can't imagine a better way to maximize the Keenum/Lynch/Kelly abilities at QB. Our stable of RB's is just fine. A line like that would get them an extra 3-4 yards before contact improvement over last year and a huge step up in pass pro. Count me in!

We've gone from disaster to big, mean, athletic and powerful. What a lovely change that would be. By the way, Veldheer is still fairly young for an OT. Anybody know anything about his recent injury history? How 'bout you @Broncofan, or you UK? You guys are our medical specialists.

He may be young in age, but Veldheer's injury history means he's nearing the end of a really good career.  Two torn triceps (both arms), and a fibula and ankle fracture have robbed him of his elite skills.   He was a very effective LT, but he's lost a step.  He also had a hard time adjusting to RT last year, with all the angles and different setups, and looked horrible early on.  He was much better after the first 3-4 games.

He's not at his peak, so he's no more than a stopgap.  But he's far better at pass pro than Watson, and he's still very effective once he gets his hands on guys in the run game.   So as long as he's on the field, he's an upgrade for sure.   Think of him like Evan Mathis 2015, but at RT (and LT in a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency kind of way).   Like Mathis, he is a big candidate to retire at the end of 2018 - he's been thinking about it as early as after 2016, so to count on anything more than 2018, it's short-sighted IMO.  Like Mathis, guy's been an absolute warrior, so when they start seeing the end, it's not likely too far away.

So we should still look to draft a developmental T, though.  He's at best a 2 year solution but could only be a 2018 solution (and probably why Elway chased the James trade angle first).  Still, I'll take it, especially since this would likely only cost us 2.5M if we cut Watson.   As much as I've railed against 2018-only moves, for 2.5M to upgrade RT, that's well worth it.   I would have much preferred Juwan James, even at 2M more, but that's because he had long-term appeal (or a high comp pick if we couldn't get him signed).   The other benefit Veldheer adds is that he is so familiar at LT, even with diminished skills, he could slide there if Bolles went down (but that's also why we need a 3rd T, so get the developmental T in Rd 3-4).

[BroncoBruin]

One of those fourth round picks looks like a sweet spot to grab one of the small school, developmental tackles. 

[thebestever6]

15 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

One of those fourth round picks looks like a sweet spot to grab one of the small school, developmental tackles. 

Wonder who's gonna be there Rankins probably wont.

[germ-x]

I’ll just caution people on Veldheer.  He was awful last year.  A move to the right side will be be beneficial.   Keenum’s escapability will help as well.  But he isn’t a world beater nor a long term answer.  He’s a stop gap and not all that much better than what was already there.

Still a great move, but a win now type of move because of Keenum’s short comings.  Veldheer is by no means the long term answer at RT.  Not even an average offensive lineman, just slightly better than what we have that could be obtained on the cheap.

For a realistic guess at what Denver is getting Veldheer was the 50th rated OT by PFF.  Factor in a move the the right side and a more mobile QB he probably slightly improved on that ranking.

[BroncoBruin]

Just now, germ-x said:

I’ll just caution people on Veldheer.  He was awful last year.  A move to the right side will be be beneficial.   Keenum’s escapability will help as well.  But he isn’t a world beater nor a long term answer.  He’s a stop gap and not all that much better than what was already there.

Still a great move, but a win now type of move because of Keenum’s short comings.  Veldheer is by no means the long term answer at RT.  Not even an average offensive lineman, just slightly better than what we have that could be obtained on the cheap.

I don't think we have any high expectations,  everyone would be thrilled with average play at RT. That's pretty valuable in an OL-starved league. 

[germ-x]

4 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I don't think we have any high expectations,  everyone would be thrilled with average play at RT. That's pretty valuable in an OL-starved league. 

He isn’t even average, though.  That’s the point.  If he was an average OT (hell even average backup) he wouldn’t have went for a 6th round pick.

Hes better than Watson and I’ll make that trade all day every day.  Unless he has resurgence he still isn’t good.  He makes the OL slightly better, but not long term.  He isn’t any type of an answer or building block for the OL.

Dude just isn’t anything.  Point being, don’t think adding Nelson to this group=a legitimate OL for the next 3 years.  Veldheer and Paradis (overrated) will be gone next year.  

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, germ-x said:

He isn’t even average, though.  That’s the point.  If he was an average OT (hell even average backup) he wouldn’t have went for a 6th round pick.

Hes better than Watson and I’ll make that trade all day every day.  Unless he has resurgence he still isn’t good.  He makes the OL slightly better, but not long term.  He isn’t any type of an answer or building block for the OL.

Dude just isn’t anything.  Point being, don’t think adding Nelson to this group=a legitimate OL for the next 3 years.  Veldheer and Paradis (overrated) will be gone next year.  

Hmmmm. Not sure I’m buying it tbh. Arizona needed to dump salary and Veldheer is a free agent in 2019, that combination will tank any player’s value. Sounds like he got off to a horrible start playing a new position and then his play stabilized until his injury. 5th in the league in pass blocking efficiency from Week 6-14. I get that fans have a vested interest in crapping on players their team cut/traded so Cards fans are going to naturally be prone to hyperbole.  Taking into account injury history + being past his prime, the RT landscape league-wide is atill awful enough that calling him average at the position doesn’t seem to be a stretch at all. 

[thebestever6]

I just get worried not having picks after the 5th round now which imo is where elway is best. Something has to give.

[thebestever6]

I know mant don't want Mayfield but if you look up his qbbase score and compare it to others historically I think he's pretty safe.

[jsthomp2007]

How can anyone suggest that Keenum was average last year?  I keep reading this.  Granted, I am not pounding on the table for him to be the Broncos long-term solution.  But, Keenum had an amazing year last year!  Or, was I watching en entirely different game?  

Also, you know what would help him out...a good running game.  You know who is looking more and more likely to fall to the Broncos at #5?  Barkley...not Charles, but Saquon.