With the 5th pick in the NFL draft the Broncos select....

[bMiller031]

2 minutes ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

I'm in NY listening to local media all the time.  I'll be shocked if the Giants don't go QB at 2. Just don't see any way they go a different direction 

Agreed- our only shot at Rosen or Darnold is if Cleveland goes the Cousins route (which may actually be in their best interest).

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

Agreed- our only shot at Rosen or Darnold is if Cleveland goes the Cousins route (which may actually be in their best interest).

I would have felt really comfortable with this possibility if Sashi Brown was still the GM.  I mean, he went after Cousins on Draft Day last year, and the price is only likely to be lower given this is the last year that WAS can realistically tag him (and likely it's only the transition tag, which comes with no compensation, just the right to match any offer without pick compensation).   But with GM changing to Dorsey, who knows what he's thinking - and because Brown coveted Cousins, Dorsey might veer away given the Browns' efforts to discredit Brown (remember Dorsey saying that Brown didn't draft real football players - the same players who now play for him the next 2-3 years minimum. ).

The ironic part is CLE's rebuild plan went as planned - they got 1.1 to pick from Darnold/Rosen, and the cap space to get Cousins if Darnold/Rosen weren't there, and now they have all options available to them - and yet the GM who told the owner that plan, stuck to it and stayed true (and saved that franchise from dealing 2.1 for AJ freaking McCarron) is the one who got fired.   Meanwhile the coach who decided to keep the QB with 12 TO's in the RZ (we only had 4-5 as a contrast) is the one they kept.  SMH at Jimmy Haslem.  

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

The ironic part is CLE's rebuild plan went as planned - they got 1.1 to pick from Darnold/Rosen, and the cap space to get Cousins if Darnold/Rosen weren't there, and now they have all options available to them - and yet the GM who told the owner that plan, stuck to it and stayed true (and saved that franchise from dealing 2.1 for AJ freaking McCarron) is the one who got fired.   Meanwhile the coach who decided to keep the QB with 12 TO's in the RZ (we only had 4-5 as a contrast) is the one they kept.  SMH at Jimmy Haslem.  

Amen. Sashi Brown wasn't a bad GM in any way. People berate him for passing on Wentz but there were a ton of questions around Carson and he was nowhere near the sure thing that most revisionist claim. Hue on the other hand has been putrid.

They are basically going to be the Philidephia 76'ers of the NFL, with Sashi as Hinkie, pushed out the door right as they get good.

You cant convince me that team isn't winning 6+ games next season with Darnold/Rosen + Barkley added.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Amen. Sashi Brown wasn't a bad GM in any way. People berate him for passing on Wentz but there were a ton of questions around Carson and he was nowhere near the sure thing that most revisionist claim. Hue on the other hand has been putrid.

They are basically going to be the Philidephia 76'ers of the NFL, with Sashi as Hinkie, pushed out the door right as they get good.

You cant convince me that team isn't winning 6+ games next season with Darnold/Rosen + Barkley added.

The main reason why I think a Cousins deal with CLE could still happen - that would allow them to get Minkah Fitzpatrick at 1.4, and then BPA when they trade down from 1.1.   Which could be Barkley, or a T (if they are worried about Joe Thomas long-term).   Cousins, Fitzpatrick and Barkley/T would upgrade them in a huge way.

I actually think they should have been a 3-4W team this year - TWELVE TO's in the RZ, and 8 inside the opponent 5 yard line.   And yet Hue kept trotting out Kizer, who was outmatched.  Hue could have sat him for Kessler in the 2H and got a better result.   Playing Kizer helped them get their 0-16 and 1.1 pick.    Remember Hue also did things like call a QB sneak with 15 secs left and no TO's in the 1H, which burned points off the clock in another game they lost by 1 score.   His in-game management and play-calling (like having their best RB on the sidelines originally for 4th down vs. PIT, only to call TO to get him out there) was mind-boggling.

The argument to taking Cousins is that they could be a 9W+ team next year if you accept they were a 3-4W team this year - with Cousins, Barkley & a shutdown CB, as shutdown CB is the only real glaring deficiency that's harder to find for a team with their cap resources.  Cousins is a 3-4W player, Barkley a 2W guy (few RB's are, but he's in that special tier) and a shutdown CB is a 2W guy.   You put a rookie QB in there, I agree it's more likely we only see 5-6W, as Year 1 QB's are rarely big W assets.  But again, that was Sashi Brown's plan - who knows what new GM Dorsey has in mind.  One can only hope it's Josh Allen lol.  That would be like a gift from the heavens. TBH, to me it just signals that lying season has begun lol.

You take away all the RZ TO's and clock mismanagement, CLE wins 3-4 games.  And also doesn't get the 1.1 pick.  But they put that ALL on the GM?   SMH. 

[Scoundrel]

CBS has us taking Courtland Sutton at 5... And has us passing on Darnold and Barkley...

[AnAngryAmerican]

3 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

Agreed- our only shot at Rosen or Darnold is if Cleveland goes the Cousins route (which may actually be in their best interest).

Problem is that Cousins will get to decide where he signs. Even if Washington tries to do a sign-and-trade, Cousins' camp can make it clear he doesn't want to play in Cleveland and won't sign long-term. Having played for Dan Snyder's Redskins his whole career, he knows what a dysfunctional franchise looks like and likely won't want to sign up to be part of another one. Thus I don't think Cleveland is a real option for him.  

[bMiller031]

20 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Problem is that Cousins will get to decide where he signs. Even if Washington tries to do a sign-and-trade, Cousins' camp can make it clear he doesn't want to play in Cleveland and won't sign long-term. Having played for Dan Snyder's Redskins his whole career, he knows what a dysfunctional franchise looks like and likely won't want to sign up to be part of another one. Thus I don't think Cleveland is a real option for him.  

Fair point. Although I'm not sure Cleveland is AS unattractive now as it has been in the past.

Picks 1.1 & 1.4 this year, all three of last year's first round picks, and a nice $30m/year contract -- If I'm Kirk, I'm not vehemently opposed. 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Problem is that Cousins will get to decide where he signs. Even if Washington tries to do a sign-and-trade, Cousins' camp can make it clear he doesn't want to play in Cleveland and won't sign long-term. Having played for Dan Snyder's Redskins his whole career, he knows what a dysfunctional franchise looks like and likely won't want to sign up to be part of another one. Thus I don't think Cleveland is a real option for him.  

This is again where Sashi Brown did an amazing job - gave the Browns 100M in cap space.   The Browns could tag him at 34.4M and not even blink. That would only address short term though.  But if CLE went with the 28M+ transition tag - here’s where things get crazy for long term planning - another team tries to sign him they just match the offer and then Cousins is signed long term .   And if Cousins balks at signing any team’s offer then CLE repeats the process the next year if no one offers and IIRC the transition tag has to go up 20 percent to 34M.    The non exclusive tag has to go up by 44 percent in year 3 but not the transition tag that’s only 20 percent since it offers other teams the chance to sign a FA just gives the original team the right to match.    Cousins has been tagged 2x and had a lot of shade thrown his way by WAS - and still didn’t hold out or create waves.   That was unbelievably professional especially given the shade thrown his way.  Hard to see how it would go any differently with any other team that actually wants him.    

CLE would have 2 years to convince him to stay.   Presumably with all their picks (and their OL and Front 7 are already a decent  unit as a result of their drafts, QB secondary and gamebreaking RB are all that’s left).  Provided they get QB they are the org most likely to be the next JAX.    If they had kept GM Brown over Hue I’d be willing to put a nice prop bet on being a 2018 playoff team given their last place schedule and his desire to get Cousins.   Now who knows lol. 

The only reason why the Tags are prohibitive are because of the escalators with non exclusive tags.   The transition tags don’t give pick compensation but CLE can match anyone.   Usually the amounts are unappealing but QB is the one spot where it’s not crazy vs. the value other guys like Stafford are getting.  That’s no doubt why Brown held 100M back too.  He really had all the angles covered.   Yet he was the guy fired.  SMH.  

All of that said with GM Dorsey at the helm no idea what he’s planning.  But GM Brown deserves a ton of credit he had all the angles covered to get Cousins if he wanted him, or get 1.1.   SMH Haslem for keeping Hue instead.  

[French Fan]

On 01/01/2018 at 3:22 AM, Wolzen said:

I agree 100%. If I was drafting  we take Barkley, then trade back in to the 1st and go after Allen or Mayfield. 

1000% agree with special mention to Josh Allen

[thebestever6]

49 minutes ago, French Fan said:

1000% agree with special mention to Josh Allen

I'd rather stay put if Darnold or a Rosen falls. Honesty I'd rather stay put in round 2. Pick Lamar Jackson or trade down and select Jackson. Than trade that third and the value of that trade down back into round 2 to get the best guard or tackle on our board. 

The running threat of Jackson would open things up for Carlos Henderson. Then I would use deangello Henderson in like a sproles roll. The combo of Barkley and Jackson in this offense would be deadly for 7 years minimum.  If you could plug that backfield in this offense it might be a shorter window but that,would be an amazing 7 year window.

[BroncosFan2010]

A bit OT, but relative to the #5 pick and our QB situation.

Am I the only one that is tempted to prefer Sam Bradford at 12-15M per season over Kirk Cousins at 25M-30M? Its an injury risk, and he isn't as aggressive with the ball, but I don't think the difference is double salary and their ages are similar. And Bradford would come on a deal with less guaranteed money, less years, more incentives. I am inclined to roll the dice on a 30 year old Bradford at 12-15M over a 34 year old Alex Smith at 18-20M too.

I just cant get over paying a non tier 1 QB in Cousins the money he will demand, all the while gutting our team to afford him.

[thebestever6]

4 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

A bit OT, but relative to the #5 pick and our QB situation.

Am I the only one that is tempted to prefer Sam Bradford at 12-15M per season over Kirk Cousins at 25M-30M? Its an injury risk, and he isn't as aggressive with the ball, but I don't think the difference is double salary and their ages are similar. And Bradford would come on a deal with less guaranteed money, less years, more incentives. I am inclined to roll the dice on a 30 year old Bradford at 12-15M over a 34 year old Alex Smith at 18-20M too.

I just cant get over paying a non tier 1 QB in Cousins the money he will demand, all the while gutting our team to afford him.

A Bradford deal would have to be loaded with incentives. Like they were trying to do before.

[paul-mac]

If it’s Bradford then I still think QB is in play at 5.

 

In fact, Kirk Cousins is the only veteran QB that I think would prevent us from considering a QB. All the other guys out there are either question marks (Bridgewater, McCarron), average game managers (Bradford, Tyrod Taylor) or so old that they’ll need to be replaced soon (Eli, Alex Smith)

 

 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

A bit OT, but relative to the #5 pick and our QB situation.

Am I the only one that is tempted to prefer Sam Bradford at 12-15M per season over Kirk Cousins at 25M-30M? Its an injury risk, and he isn't as aggressive with the ball, but I don't think the difference is double salary and their ages are similar. And Bradford would come on a deal with less guaranteed money, less years, more incentives. I am inclined to roll the dice on a 30 year old Bradford at 12-15M over a 34 year old Alex Smith at 18-20M too.

I just cant get over paying a non tier 1 QB in Cousins the money he will demand, all the while gutting our team to afford him.

I agree that committing 25-30M to any QB limits your ability to compete, unless you have an otherwise near-complete roster (usually from hitting on the draft and having guys in their rookie deals across the board).    I would differ on Cousins' abilities, however.   I do think he's on the verge of being a true elite QB.   People look at the WAS season in 2016-17 and say it wasn't elite, but consider:

-Cousins has no real go-to elite WR's - Jamison Crowder was literally the only guy in the top 50 WR's by any metric used.  Same last year.   And the uber-talented but oft-injured Jordan Reed couldn't even get in 8 full games this year.

-Cousins benefitted last year from a really good OL - but this year, from game 6 on, he was without their LT, and then from week 8 on, their RT & G.   Then had the 2 remaining starters bounce in and out with injuries.

-Cousins also had the one barrier few QB's succeed with - total lack of running game.   Then this was compounded when he lost the only real pass catching threat in Chris Thompson.   Until he lost Thompson, he was still hanging in there with a top 10 passing O.   

The other way to look at it, from pure DVOA:

-WAS finished 14th in passing overall, with the 28th ranked run game, no RB's in the top 40 from a rushing perspective, and the 24th ranked pass protection OL, and no WR's in the top 30 overall, and only 1 in the top 50...and no TE's in the top 20 (now Thompson was a top 5 receiving RB).     That screams that it was literally all on Cousins.  

And it wasn't just the #'s, it was the film.  Even the game he won vs. us, was reflective of their season - pretty much all on him overcoming meh RB's, terrible pass pro, and average Joe WR's.   

Still, 30M is too much to commit - but if money is no object, I have no problem saying Cousins is a 3W (maybe 4W) QB.   But we can't afford him, and someone will likely outbid us.   I just believe he's a legit, top tier QB (about which I count 6-8 guys right now). 

[DiehardBronxFan]

You wanna win a Super Bowl in the NFL, you need a top tier QB.  Period. I can't imagine what the value would be to bringing a Bradford in. Go 9-7, miss the playoffs, get a mediocre draft pick, and whatever Rookie QB you do take doesn't get on the field to develop.  

Pass.

Get a QB that can take you to the Big Game, or Draft a QB that you hope can get you there.  Otherwise, you're just the Jets, Browns, or half the other teams in the league that are perpetually mediocre.