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Danand

2018 draft talk

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2 hours ago, Danand said:

Thomas needed a lot of help, that Wagner didn't. I can't see the reason to add insecurity to the offensive line after we just 1 year seemed to have some good oline coaches who developed players.

Eagles just won a super bowl with what was likely the best oline in the league. I can't see a reason to not imitate that.

I understand the importance of having solid OL play. But drafting lineman in the middle rounds is the strength of this team. Just think of how many 3rd round to UDFA have performed well for us. There was a period of decline when we switched from a ZBS back to a MBS but we now have the right personnel. A guy like Skura already played center in college and has some size to him. He was a solid college prospect. Add two talents like Yanda and Lewis next to him who have some experience and I feel much more confident. Then we just draft a talented center in the middle rounds to drive competition and/or sign a cheap veteran cap casualty and we’re good.

Whereas wide receivers you say Flacco played well, but that game against Pittsburgh in the wind where none of our receivers could catch in the first half way an embarrassment. What good is having a great OL and Flacco having time if they can’t make plays. Dallas also had an elite OL and they didn’t win a super bowl.

When the Ravens won the Super Bowl Joe Flacco had the most prolific QB of any QB in post season history. Throwing for 11 TDs and 0 ints. He did that because he had a reliable deep threat in Torrey Smith, Ray Rice as a backfield weapon. Dennis Pitta as a mismatch TE weapon. Anquan Boldin as a mismatch WR weapon. We had Ed Dickson as a somewhat reliable second TE option. And we had Jacoby Jones as a somewhat reliable WR option. Not elite, but decent weapons nonetheless.

We literally have none of that right now. No tight ends that can make plays as our best option (Watson) is a free agent. You could make the argument that maybe we have some guys that could be decent #2 tight ends though. We have no mismatch receivers since Steve Smith retired. And we also don’t have a reliable WR threats. Maybe Maclin could be a Jacoby Jones, but he makes way too much money for that role and will likely be a cap casualty.

So that being said, I’d much rather trust our front office to find quality OL in the middle rounds and/or through cap casualties, like we’ve done before (Matt Birk), than to trust them to draft all of the above weapons that we need without reaching on talent.

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I just believe we are better off putting on an offensive line on the field, that can elevate the rest of the offense, rather than taking chances like we have done before. Gino Gradkowski was the middle round OC you hope to find if Jensen leaves, while I would prefer not to take that chance.

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all for adding some higher round OL every year, agree with Danand.

Yanda has what - maybe 2 years left? he is the anchor of that line and a true all pro player, the only one on that line right now. Stanley might get there but who knows. can't fill the voids of higher level players with constant low level replacements and sustain great line play for long. that 80/20 of what Ozzie is always taking about does not add up year after year, you have to add some top notch talent in every other year.

when Nelson is there in the first you take him, Wynn in the second, maybe some tackle but i'd prefer IOL.

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6 hours ago, paraven said:

Do they win without Alshon?

Very likely. The oline gave Eagles backup QB so much time to work with, that he found whoever was on the field and wasn't in double coverage. They set up both deep, short and intermediate routes and got great push in the running game.

I would clearly prefer Kelce -> Jeffrey.

I am talking about maximizing the chances of getting a great oline and not counting on finding them later in the draft. Also, why take a chance on an unknown when you already have knowledge about a player you have on your roster?

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6 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I understand the importance of having solid OL play. But drafting lineman in the middle rounds is the strength of this team. Just think of how many 3rd round to UDFA have performed well for us. There was a period of decline when we switched from a ZBS back to a MBS but we now have the right personnel. A guy like Skura already played center in college and has some size to him. He was a solid college prospect. Add two talents like Yanda and Lewis next to him who have some experience and I feel much more confident. Then we just draft a talented center in the middle rounds to drive competition and/or sign a cheap veteran cap casualty and we’re good.

Whereas wide receivers you say Flacco played well, but that game against Pittsburgh in the wind where none of our receivers could catch in the first half way an embarrassment. What good is having a great OL and Flacco having time if they can’t make plays. Dallas also had an elite OL and they didn’t win a super bowl.

When the Ravens won the Super Bowl Joe Flacco had the most prolific QB of any QB in post season history. Throwing for 11 TDs and 0 ints. He did that because he had a reliable deep threat in Torrey Smith, Ray Rice as a backfield weapon. Dennis Pitta as a mismatch TE weapon. Anquan Boldin as a mismatch WR weapon. We had Ed Dickson as a somewhat reliable second TE option. And we had Jacoby Jones as a somewhat reliable WR option. Not elite, but decent weapons nonetheless.

We literally have none of that right now. No tight ends that can make plays as our best option (Watson) is a free agent. You could make the argument that maybe we have some guys that could be decent #2 tight ends though. We have no mismatch receivers since Steve Smith retired. And we also don’t have a reliable WR threats. Maybe Maclin could be a Jacoby Jones, but he makes way too much money for that role and will likely be a cap casualty.

So that being said, I’d much rather trust our front office to find quality OL in the middle rounds and/or through cap casualties, like we’ve done before (Matt Birk), than to trust them to draft all of the above weapons that we need without reaching on talent.

Flacco won the super bowl with a lot of complimentary pieces - just like several teams this year.

Much of our ups and downs these past years comes directly from bad running game and Flacco not having enough time to throw the intermediate and deep passes. Everyone flips when we throw flats and ins for 3 yards while ignoring its all we can do because protection breaks down.

Ken McKusick broke it down in one of his podcasts where he pointed towards the fact, that our tight ends and runningbacks had to chip a lot this year to help the oline.

While Skura played above expectations as well as Hurst, they where average. They are nice as backups, but so far not long term starters.

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3 hours ago, Danand said:

Ken McKusick broke it down in one of his podcasts where he pointed towards the fact, that our tight ends and runningbacks had to chip a lot this year to help the oline.

Ken is a great listen.

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5 hours ago, Danand said:

Flacco won the super bowl with a lot of complimentary pieces - just like several teams this year.

Much of our ups and downs these past years comes directly from bad running game and Flacco not having enough time to throw the intermediate and deep passes. Everyone flips when we throw flats and ins for 3 yards while ignoring its all we can do because protection breaks down.

Ken McKusick broke it down in one of his podcasts where he pointed towards the fact, that our tight ends and runningbacks had to chip a lot this year to help the oline.

While Skura played above expectations as well as Hurst, they where average. They are nice as backups, but so far not long term starters.

Okay, but what else would we do with our tight ends and running backs? They literally aren’t explosive receiving threats to really expose a defense. So they might as well help the OL by some time.

How often did we see Ray Rice chip with similarly poor offensive lines? Rarely. Why? Because he was Flacco’s most prolific receiving threat outside of Derrick Mason and arguably Anquan Boldin.

Thats why I’ve been saying we should also upgrade the RB position, why? Because with a true reception playmaker the defense has to worry more about the back scorching their LBer than a RB chipping the linebacker that they are blitzing.

So again, that logic is flawed. We chip because we don’t have playmaking backs and TEs. And if we had playmaking backs and tights ends the defense blitzes less because they have to fear the damage those playmakers will cause thus freeing up the OL to have an easier time in pass protection. Notice how a lot of the top OLs also have playmakers in the passing game  at the RB and TE positions. That’s not a coincidence. It’s a vicious circle of life. Blitz and sack or get gashed.

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Another little mock-

1. Cle- Sam Darnold QB- Exciting quarterback of the future for their franchise.

2. NYG- Saquon Barkley HB- They choose to build a strong foundation around Eli and hope Webb can step up later on.

3. Ind- Bradley Chubb DE-  They take the safe high floor pass rusher.

4. Trade- Den- Josh Rosen QB- Cousins is now too expensive and they like Rosen the best.

5. Cle- Minkah Fitzpatrick CB/S- A safe versatile leader to add to their defensive core.

6. NYJ- Bayker Mayfield QB- No Cousins and they take the little leader Mayfield.

7. TB- Marcus Davenport DE- They take the beastly pass rusher.

8. Chi- Quenton Nelson G- Really not their biggest need but he stays with their OL coach to help build a wall for Howard and Trubisky.

9. SF- Denzel Ward CB- They add a lock down piece to their young team.

10. OAK- Roquan Smith LB- Will lead Gruden's defense in the desert. 

11. Mia-Tremaine Edmunds LB- Goes to his dad's old team, and they get a 19 year old who can play all positions at LB for them.

12. Cin- Connor Williams OT- They hope he can return to his 2016 form and man the left side for them.

13. Was- Vita Vea DT- An instant fix for their last ranked run D and tandem a DI with Jonathen Allen.

14. GB- Harold Landry Edge- Landry has a ton of twitch that they need to put QBs down in the playoffs.

15. ARI- Josh Jackson CB- Another high tier corner to pair with Peterson and teams will be scared to throw anywhere on them.

___________________________________

Easy no reaching path where we have the choice of Derwin James or Calvin Ridley at #16. Also it's somewhat QB conservative with Allen or Jackson still available if someone wants to offer us a bunch of picks. I really believe this is a great year for us, we either get the blue chip beast that is Derwin or Ridley who could drop 1200 and 8 for us easy. I think there's a 60% chance Derwin is available and an 80-85% chance Ridley is available.

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11 minutes ago, berlin calling said:

where do you have Cousins ending up?

Arizona. Rumor is he wants to go either there or the Vikings, and I think they just have too much going on at the QB position so he'll end up with the Cardinals. I think he's looking to go to a win now team in a smaller media market after being run through the mill in Washington and the Cardinals are that fit.

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I enjoy doing these mock drafts on Fanspeak. Largely because it's fun to see just how player valuations change over the course of a few months. I somehow doubt most of these players will go anywhere near these spots, but if they did I'd be pretty happy:

R1P16 LB ROQUON SMITH   GEORGIA
R2P20 TE DALLAS GOEDERT   SOUTH DAKOTA STATE
R3P19 WR D.J. MOORE   MARYLAND
R3P38 MASON COLE MICHIGAN
 R4P18 WR EQUANIMEOUS ST. BROWN   NOTRE DAME
R5P17 WR MICHAEL GALLUP   COLORADO STATE
R6P16 QB MIKE WHITE   WESTERN KENTUCKY
R7P20 CB ADONIS ALEXANDER   VIRGINIA TECH

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2 hours ago, Mancunian Raven said:

I enjoy doing these mock drafts on Fanspeak. Largely because it's fun to see just how player valuations change over the course of a few months. I somehow doubt most of these players will go anywhere near these spots, but if they did I'd be pretty happy:

R1P16 LB ROQUON SMITH   GEORGIA
R2P20 TE DALLAS GOEDERT   SOUTH DAKOTA STATE
R3P19 WR D.J. MOORE   MARYLAND
R3P38 MASON COLE MICHIGAN
 R4P18 WR EQUANIMEOUS ST. BROWN   NOTRE DAME
R5P17 WR MICHAEL GALLUP   COLORADO STATE
R6P16 QB MIKE WHITE   WESTERN KENTUCKY
R7P20 CB ADONIS ALEXANDER   VIRGINIA TECH

I went total retard on this, and I like it.

16: R1P16
OT CONNOR WILLIAMS
TEXAS
52: R2P20
WR JAMES WASHINGTON
OKLAHOMA STATE
83: R3P19
RB RASHAAD PENNY
SAN DIEGO STATE
102: R3P38
WR MICHAEL GALLUP
COLORADO STATE
120: R4P18
C FRANK RAGNOW
ARKANSAS
156: R5P17
TE TROY FUMAGALLI
WISCONSIN
193: R6P16
LB SHAQUEM GRIFFIN
CENTRAL FLORIDA
238: R7P20
WR AUSTIN PROEHL
NORTH CAROLINA

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54 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

 

I saw one of these routes trees/passer rating done on Antonio Brown. It was ridiculous. 

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Daniel Jerimiah's top 5 at WR-

1. Calvin Ridley

2. Christian Kirk

3. DJ Moore

4. Equanimeous St. Brown

5. Auden Tate

 

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