2018 draft talk

[Danand]

5 hours ago, berlin calling said:

sorry didn't midn to hurt your feelings.

well then: Texanstrading w/ the Ravens as i described earlier is bold indeed, no question.
them moving up in the first is not imo.

calling Lamar Jackson the best QB prospect in this years draft is absolutely laughable. i don't consider myself to have much knowledge or interest in scouting.
however people who work as professionals in the NFL or media have. do any of them consider him the best QB prospect this year? nope. should tell you what i was getting at.

but we'll see very soon if he is picked #1 as he should be acc. to yourself.

me? i have no idea who is going to be the best QB of this class but i'd take Mayfield #1. he is a proven winner and a leader of men if you can trust the reports about his teammates raving about him in interviews. thats what i would be looking at when picking my QBOTF. needs to be able to lead my team. i don't mind the co*ky attitude one bit, only further prove of his drive imo. i 'll let others discuss metrics like velocity and release time and what not.

All those media experts and NFL coaches, scouts etc. missed out on Deshaun Watson last year, they miss on players every single year. Calling Luke Falk the best QB might be laughable, while Lamar Jackson is in the vicinity of the others and considering all of the other top options at quarterback have some sort of questionmark next to their name, I don't see it as laughable having Jackson as #1 on the QB board.

[berlin calling]

i do in a year where there are plenty more QBs of worth than in 207 - presumably.

to each his own i guess. i trust people who do this for a business more than anybody on an internet forum. see i don't believe anybody last year had that kind of thing to say about Watson, be it wrong or right.

DB may be right with his bold statement but you won't be able to convince me he is the best before Jackson and everybody else in this draft class has played at least a season of NFL football.

 

[Danand]

23 minutes ago, berlin calling said:

i do in a year where there are plenty more QBs of worth than in 207 - presumably.

to each his own i guess. i trust people who do this for a business more than anybody on an internet forum. see i don't believe anybody last year had that kind of thing to say about Watson, be it wrong or right.

DB may be right with his bold statement but you won't be able to convince me he is the best before Jackson and everybody else in this draft class has played at least a season of NFL football.

 

It may be bold, but it is not laughable. After 2-3 years we can talk about it. Jackson, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen might not even have played a snap after 1 year.

[paraven]

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ravens-2018-Seven-Round-Mock-Draft/4c0fd323-8aa9-439b-a1b0-16936525cd38

Here are minks and downings mock drafts. Dont like minks, but im obviously great with Downings. All the mocks having us take Hurst at 16 is a bit concerning

[berlin calling]

44 minutes ago, Danand said:

It may be bold, but it is not laughable. After 2-3 years we can talk about it. Jackson, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen might not even have played a snap after 1 year.

you know what: i should have used another word for it. ridiculous.

anyhow, never said lets review after next season but rather once all of these guys played at least a full season, whenever this may be. if we get picky over everything around here don't twist my words. 

[Danand]

7 minutes ago, paraven said:

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ravens-2018-Seven-Round-Mock-Draft/4c0fd323-8aa9-439b-a1b0-16936525cd38

Here are minks and downings mock drafts. Dont like minks, but im obviously great with Downings. All the mocks having us take Hurst at 16 is a bit concerning

Although I don't agree with Hurst, I think Mink had a nice bounceback, and I can see he reads this forum, as he took DaSean Hamilton and Daurice Fountain as I suggested in another thread.

[Danand]

6 minutes ago, berlin calling said:

you know what: i should have used another word for it. ridiculous.

anyhow, never said lets review after next season but rather once all of these guys played at least a full season, whenever this may be. if we get picky over everything around here don't twist my words. 

I don't think it is ridiculous. Its a bold statement, as it goes against consensus. Its a bold statement calling Orlando Brown the best tackle in the draft, but its neither laughable or ridiculous as he could very well be the best tackle. Just as he has some question marks, so does every other tackle prospect in this class. Kolton Miller is raw, Connor Williams might be too short, McGlinchey struggles against speed rushers etc. etc.

I am not twisting words, or trying to twist words. I just see the draft as a huge unknown, where a complete amateur who only watches tape from youtube actually will be able to gauge talents and make better picks from the couch compared to teams.

[paraven]

I do miss Billick at times

[diamondbull424]

7 hours ago, berlin calling said:

sorry didn't midn to hurt your feelings.

well then: Texanstrading w/ the Ravens as i described earlier is bold indeed, no question.
them moving up in the first is not imo.

calling Lamar Jackson the best QB prospect in this years draft is absolutely laughable. i don't consider myself to have much knowledge or interest in scouting.
however people who work as professionals in the NFL or media have. do any of them consider him the best QB prospect this year? nope. should tell you what i was getting at.

but we'll see very soon if he is picked #1 as he should be acc. to yourself.

me? i have no idea who is going to be the best QB of this class but i'd take Mayfield #1. he is a proven winner and a leader of men if you can trust the reports about his teammates raving about him in interviews. thats what i would be looking at when picking my QBOTF. needs to be able to lead my team. i don't mind the co*ky attitude one bit, only further prove of his drive imo. i 'll let others discuss metrics like velocity and release time and what not.

My feelings aren’t hurt, I’m just that confident in Lamar Jackson’s ability when given an opportunity. In the old forum I would’ve done some sort of a sig bet, but sigs are kind of irrelevant in this new rendition.

I never said Lamar Jackson will get drafted #1 in the draft, rather that he is the best QB in this class. Similar to how Russell Wilson wasn’t draft until the 12th pick of the third round, yet is quite clearly the best QB of that famed 2012 class that had RG3 and Andrew Luck.

This current QB class is the most hyped QB class since that 2012 draft and sure it may be bold, but watching Jackson play and knowing that he comes from an offense that has NFL route concepts, an offense that produced a young pro bowl QB in Teddy Bridgewater (Jackson is a better passer and of course the better athlete), I find it quite easy to put him over:

1. Josh Allen: Just as inaccurate as Jackson, stronger arm, but worse pocket presence and throwing anticipation. Him being rated above Jackson doesn’t make sense to me. But hey, NFL teams always get drunk on arm talents. See: Jamarcus Russell.

2. Josh Rosen: He’s a beast, but he’s sadly probably going to be the next Sam Bradford. He’s not just frail, but lacks the necessary toughness to take a college beating, let alone an NFL beating. He might make a pro bowl or two, but he also might struggle with concussions and is forced to end his NFL career before it ever gets off the ground. Or gets relegated to a backup QB because of his inability to be relied on as a durable option, like Bradford.

3. Baker Mayfield: He has pro bowl potential, but he also has been compared to Russell Wilson. Wilson was a 4.5 speed guy, his 10 yard split was 1.59 while Baker Mayfield is a 4.8 speed guy with a 10 yard split of 1.72. Part of Wilson’s greatness early on as he developed was his feet. His legs created wider passing lanes because defenders had to spy and concern themselves with his threat after the pocket collapsed. With Mayfield, collegiate defenses had to concern themselves with his speed in such a way, but at the NFL level,  athletic freak DTs could chase him down from behind, let alone the other athletes. He will thus have to both adjust to the NFL as less of a rushing threat, he will have to adjust to NFL route concepts, he also will have to adjust to holding onto the ball longer than 2 seconds, as that’s all he needed in college. Adjust to making calls at the line. He can do those things, but he will have to follow a Drew Brees trajectory and not many people have done that. He very well might be more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees. Though I do like Mayfield.

4. Sam Darnold: The best of the four QBs as hes the best combination of durable, athlete, arm talent, and size. His most important element is that he’s also clutch. That said, he has had some fumbling problems and a elongated wind up. He’s a pro bowl talent as well, but he doesn’t really have an elite trait that would make me think he’ll be able to push for all pro potential.

Lamar Jackson- Elite speed will open up throwing windows and allow him to outrun angles. He’s smart enough to protect himself when he runs and has been able to endure a collegiate beating. He has the greatness to evolve an offense and make the surrounding parts better and more lethal. His biggest difficulty will be to maintain durability given his playing style, similar to Russell Wilson given his mobility. Jackson’s feet will enable pass catching TEs, receiving RBs, and slot receivers to have more room to work with and thus in turn provide Jackson with more spacing for his lower level accuracy to find his target, all the while allowing him time to continue to improve his accuracy. Perhaps the biggest thing that will hold Jackson back from an all pro team would be public acceptance of a dual threat QB as the face of the NFL over a pocket passer. Which of all the QBs just might be the greatest threat of all.

[DreamKid]

Everyone should be watching the draft on NFLN anyway, ESPN is a joke, but this year watch and listen to David Shaw talk up our organization as he always does. I want that guy to be our next head coach so bad. What he's done at Stanford has been beyond impressive. Like the Patriots they have a productive culture established but also are constantly evolving and or tailoring their approach to the game. As with anything you have to pay for quality so big Steve will need to open up the checkbook but it will be worth it to lock Shaw down.

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, berlin calling said:

i do in a year where there are plenty more QBs of worth than in 207 - presumably.

to each his own i guess. i trust people who do this for a business more than anybody on an internet forum. see i don't believe anybody last year had that kind of thing to say about Watson, be it wrong or right.

DB may be right with his bold statement but you won't be able to convince me he is the best before Jackson and everybody else in this draft class has played at least a season of NFL football.

 

One more thing, you say all the analysts have Jackson ranked below these other guys. But analysts also have a job to keep, thus if they go too against the grain and that player fails, their analysis can’t be trusted. But if they collude their opinion they remain safe. That said, if you listen to nuance, you can generally find some of the analysis that made them rise to greatness.

Heres what I mean, Mike Mayock does not flat out call Lamar Jackson the best QB prospect in the draft, but he does call him the best athlete in the draft. He says he’s a better passer than Teddy Bridgewater (made the pro bowl for Minnesota in 2016) though I can no longer find the extended cut of Lamar Jackson proday video where he makes the Bridgewater comment.

Just like DJ states, if Lamar is having an off day with his accuracy, he can run for a 100 yds and I think that’s the thing that will make him so hard to stop.

Just as Deshaun Watson became the first QB in NCAA history to pass for 4000 yds and rush for 1000 yds; Jackson became the first to ever pass for over 3500 yds and rush for over 1500 yds... and he matched that feat twice. Watson is ahead of Jackson as a passer, but Jackson is the most prolific rushing quarterback in college history and a dynamic passer to boot. Durable as well, because you don’t go for 1500 rushing yards in back to back seasons without missing a game without being durable.

There has never been a college player like Lamar Jackson and because I know whatever team that drafts him will be open minded enough to adjust some of their offense to his skillset, I know for a fact that he will be successful. At worst he’s the greatest wildcat threat ever conceived, at best he becomes the most unstoppable offensive threat in NFL history. I can’t say the same thing with any of these other quarterbacks in this draft class.

[sp6488]

Anyone in the Baltimore area going downtown for the draft event on Saturday?

[DreamKid]

3 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

at best he becomes the most unstoppable offensive threat in NFL history.

Check yourself bro, that threat is already in house.

 

[baltimoreRebel]

A few mocks have him going to us. He could easily go to the Cardinals as well (Who pick before us) Chargers pick after us and could definitely take him to groom behind Rivers. 

Reason I'm bringing this up is simply for trade back purposes. New England has Ammo to move up and we are always willing to move back to collect extra picks. Best case scenario if Lamar gets through the run on QBs. Maybe new England puts together a package to send us to secure their guy. 

This draft is said to be very deep and accumulating more picks seems like a great choice if our team is given the opportunity. 

[diamondbull424]

4 minutes ago, baltimoreRebel said:

A few mocks have him going to us. He could easily go to the Cardinals as well (Who pick before us) Chargers pick after us and could definitely take him to groom behind Rivers. 

Reason I'm bringing this up is simply for trade back purposes. New England has Ammo to move up and we are always willing to move back to collect extra picks. Best case scenario if Lamar gets through the run on QBs. Maybe new England puts together a package to send us to secure their guy. 

This draft is said to be very deep and accumulating more picks seems like a great choice if our team is given the opportunity. 

If we don’t trade up for an elite talent that could potentially be the most ideal scenario. Depending on what our plans are with Joe Flacco.

If the Ravens are thinking:

We have full confidence in Joe Flacco:

Then you take those extra draft picks and ride Flacco out for the next four years.

Let’s give Joe another year healthy to decide:

Then you take Lamar Jackson at 16 and don’t look back. Any doubt is too much doubt when speaking on an elite option. Best case scenario Flacco increased his value so that he can have his choice of the litter in regards to what team we trade him to for a 1st round pick. Worst case scenario, he craps the bed and we come out looking like gang busters for selecting Lamar Jackson as the heir apparent before the need was true. Kind of like with the Marlon Humphrey pick.