2018 draft talk

[Danand]

4 hours ago, RavensfanRD said:

Screw your high character guys! GO GET ME DIVAS AND KILLERS!

I'm sick of this garbage. GO get me a savage who demands respect, the ball and wants to win. Yes, play for each other, but also tell your opponent that they are pathetic and weak and you're here to take their soul.

1. I WANT A RANDY MOSS HERE WR #1 Priority

2. A Tightend (I wanted OJ "Da Juiceman" Howard, but we all can't have nice things)

3. An O-lineman

 

High character guys can have that attitude. What we don't want is the diva-me-first-me-only WR.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

49 minutes ago, Danand said:

High character guys can have that attitude. What we don't want is the diva-me-first-me-only WR.

Like Steve Smith?

[RavensTillIDie]

35 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

Like Steve Smith?

Eh, that's different. Steve Smith was the epitome of a team guy, especially during his time in Baltimore. He may of had some diva type personality traits, but at the end of the day, all that dude cared about was winning. I'm more than okay with drafting a diva like Smith, Dez, Moss, etc who may be ME players, but are more so just extremely passionate about winning over everything else. Guys like TO, DeSean Jackson, Keyshawn, Ochocinco....hard pass.

[diamondbull424]

So one of the things I like to do when researching nfl prospects is look at their interviews. I was doing that with Calvin Ridley and I have to say that I’ve lost luster on the guy. I don’t expect guys to be college professors or anything, but I just look for them to sound somewhat affluent and competent. The Nfl is a tougher league. A students league. So I’m not saying I wouldn’t draft Ridley or that he won’t be a stud... I just know a lot of the top receivers in the league past or present  seem to be able to speak well... even if they were divas. I’d still draft him, but after hearing the exit interview from Breshad Perriman and then the Calvin Ridley interview, can’t say I have the same confidence in him that I had. That may sound like a dumb reason to knock a guy, but with a top 16 pick we’ve got to make sure we hit it out of the park. We can’t afford to draft a bust or even an average starter.

[diamondbull424]

2 minutes ago, RavensTillIDie said:

Eh, that's different. Steve Smith was the epitome of a team guy, especially during his time in Baltimore. He may of had some diva type personality traits, but at the end of the day, all that dude cared about was winning. I'm more than okay with drafting a diva like Smith, Dez, Moss, etc who may be ME players, but are more so just extremely passionate about winning over everything else. Guys like TO, DeSean Jackson, Keyshawn, Ochocinco....hard pass.

I would flip TO and Randy Moss in that statement. If Moss wanted to win he would never have been such a quitter for the Oakland Raiders or “play when he wants to play”. I’d easily take TO over Moss. At least game in and game out you knew he was in it for every play. He may have wrecked organizations but so did Moss. If TO had come to the Ravens in that trade that he rejected to go to the Eagles, he would’ve been a 1st ballot hall of famer right now.

Both TO and Moss were divas, but of the two, veteran TO was most like the veteran Steve Smith that wanted to win. In San Fran he was immature, but you don’t play on a broken leg and still put up over 100 receiving yards, if you’re simply a diva me only type player. Moss breaks his leg with the Patriots and you might struggle to find him watching the game let alone playing in it.

[RavensTillIDie]

15 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I would flip TO and Randy Moss in that statement. If Moss wanted to win he would never have been such a quitter for the Oakland Raiders or “play when he wants to play”. I’d easily take TO over Moss. At least game in and game out you knew he was in it for every play. He may have wrecked organizations but so did Moss. If TO had come to the Ravens in that trade that he rejected to go to the Eagles, he would’ve been a 1st ballot hall of famer right now.

Both TO and Moss were divas, but of the two, veteran TO was most like the veteran Steve Smith that wanted to win. In San Fran he was immature, but you don’t play on a broken leg and still put up over 100 receiving yards, if you’re simply a diva me only type player. Moss breaks his leg with the Patriots and you might struggle to find him watching the game let alone playing in it.

Fair point. I guess I was more so thinking of New England Randy, but I had totally forgotten about his stint with the Raiders. And again, it's risk reward, TO may have cared about winning, but he absolutely cared about himself over any and everybody else. If the focus wasn't on him, dude was shooting reality shows from his parking garage for attention. As much as Moss would sulk and "give up" at times, he never put that kind of negative attention on himself nor did he try to actively ruin the reputation of any of his teammates. Dude just hated being stuck on trash teams. TO on the other hand was the definition of a cancer on any team that he was on; I mean, the guy came out and publicly questioned the sexuality of his quarterback in San Francisco. Come on now.

But all that's beside the point. I think we both agree with the underlying principal that there's varying levels of diva type behavior that are acceptable in a wide receiver, assuming their skill set does enough to offset any potential headaches they may cause and any grievances are off set by winning.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I'm not saying I want a diva like Desean Jackson or Randy Moss either, but generally guys who are divas (OBJ?) are that way because they're insanely talented, and at this point, I don't think this organization is in a point to be picky about the WR's they go after given their track record of bad draft picks. I'm still recovering from the fact that right now this team should have Stefon Diggs and JuJu on the roster.

[RavensTillIDie]

Just now, Darth Pees said:

I'm not saying I want a diva like Desean Jackson or Randy Moss either, but generally guys who are divas (OBJ?) are that way because they're insanely talented, and at this point, I don't think this organization is in a point to be picky about the WR's they go after given their track record of bad draft picks. I'm still recovering from the fact that right now this team should have Stefon Diggs and JuJu on the roster.

How do you figure? I've said this in another post a while ago, but we really haven't been in a position to draft a quality wide receiver in some time now, and we've known for ages that we suck at scouting the position. There were a number of guys in this past draft that we were all very high on, but they all got snatched up before the Ravens pick. And Juju may have been on the Ravens board, but he clearly wasn't high enough given how many other teams passed on him, as well. And the knocks on Juju coming out weren't personality related, they were actually (surprisingly) for his lack of top speed and concerns over his ability to separate from NFL cornerbacks.

Same thing applies to Diggs. The guy didn't end up getting drafted in the 5th round by coincidence. Lack of size, durability concerns due to numerous injuries in college and underwhelming collegiate production due to horrible QB play all contributed to why he fell so far in the draft.

Those factors aside, who's to say those guys would even have close to the same level of success here in Baltimore? We've seen how we develop and treat our lower drafted receivers. Outside of one extremely costly play this season, Chris Moore looks like he might be a pretty good player, but who would of known that until he was forced into action?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Quote

Those factors aside, who's to say those guys would even have close to the same level of success here in Baltimore? We've seen how we develop and treat our lower drafted receivers. Outside of one extremely costly play this season, Chris Moore looks like he might be a pretty good player, but who would of known that until he was forced into action?

This is a good point. Why does Bobby Engram continue to have a job year in and year out despite NONE of our drafted WR's ever developing at all? 

With that being said, JuJu and Diggs were still heavily linked to us, and I will never not be salty about us routinely missing on guys like that while taking risks on guys like Breshad Perriman. But like I said, if there's a talented WR in the 1st round that may have some character issues, IDGAF, ****** that guy up because we need talent and swagger on this roster.

[diamondbull424]

So unrelated to the receiver topic, but oline related, I really like what I see from Brian Oniel out of Pittsburgh. He’s not yet considered a top 5 OT in this class and I hope that stays that way, from what I’ve seen so far he’d be my top OT prospect coming out. He played TE in high school, transitioned to Right tackle for his first two seasons and then transitioned to the left side for his redshirt junior season. He’s exactly what we need. Positional flexibility to be a swing tackle and has really good quick feet. Doesn’t over extend when blocking. I really like what I see. Right now it looks like he could be available in the early second.

[berlin calling]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Right now it looks like he could be available in the early second.

want to trade up for him? Ravens are picking #20 in the 2nd round.

[wackywabbit]

We are probably going to trade down. That's always been plan A for the team. They just haven't gotten good enough offers these past couple years.

[DreamKid]

10 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

So one of the things I like to do when researching nfl prospects is look at their interviews. I was doing that with Calvin Ridley and I have to say that I’ve lost luster on the guy. I don’t expect guys to be college professors or anything, but I just look for them to sound somewhat affluent and competent. The Nfl is a tougher league. A students league. So I’m not saying I wouldn’t draft Ridley or that he won’t be a stud... I just know a lot of the top receivers in the league past or present  seem to be able to speak well... even if they were divas. I’d still draft him, but after hearing the exit interview from Breshad Perriman and then the Calvin Ridley interview, can’t say I have the same confidence in him that I had. That may sound like a dumb reason to knock a guy, but with a top 16 pick we’ve got to make sure we hit it out of the park. We can’t afford to draft a bust or even an average starter.

Followed your lead, definitely something there with Calvin, it's not so much his intelligence or mental acumen I'm worried about but his general off field personality. You can tell he's kind of a click bait machine and irresponsible with his words. It's a situation where our oft mentioned Bama connections will come in handy because he is the exact kind of receiver we need- 1. He gets open 2. He catches the ball easily 3. He's explosive after the catch.

I love his on field personality, fiery alpha mentality that wants the rock and knows he's a #1. I recognize your point though, we need someone who seems more sharp and ready to accept their role mentally and physically. If you gave a guy like Anquan a map to the receiver room he might slap you for infantalizing him, where as Perriman and Ridley seem like it might be best to send a guide with them to make sure they get there and don't stop at 18 different water fountains.

It's not something I've thought about much but a great observation. It's surprisingly harder to think of an inarticulate great at WR than the other way around. I think Ridley's mistake is that he overestimates how much he has to offer and doesn't mute/tame himself as others in that position should and have. Andre Johnson is good example of a guy who isn't lightning quick but found long term success, he chose to stay silent rather than be proved the fool though.

It would be best if we had a respected veteran for him to watch and be around but we lack such an entity. Jarvis Landry and Mike Wallace don't seem like the best options to mentor him either, two potential players for us next year. Shame we probably couldn't trade for a guy like Larry same as we did Anquan years back, too much of a franchise legend.

Amazing how much more mature and mentally capable Marlon is/was than Ridley at almost 4 years younger. Special kind of kid and player, a born Raven.

If Ridley does check out and the FO is comfortable with him, it's a near lock he'll be the pick at this stage imo. Unless a blue chip defensive player(BPA) or OT falls, it's gotta be him. Hard to see most of the top 15 teams picking a near 24 year old WR that high in favor of some of the draft's other talent.

[Danand]

5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

So unrelated to the receiver topic, but oline related, I really like what I see from Brian Oniel out of Pittsburgh. He’s not yet considered a top 5 OT in this class and I hope that stays that way, from what I’ve seen so far he’d be my top OT prospect coming out. He played TE in high school, transitioned to Right tackle for his first two seasons and then transitioned to the left side for his redshirt junior season. He’s exactly what we need. Positional flexibility to be a swing tackle and has really good quick feet. Doesn’t over extend when blocking. I really like what I see. Right now it looks like he could be available in the early second.

I was quick to comment on Daniel Jeremiahs post about O'neill coming out. He looks like a ravens player and seems scheme versatile as well.

[diamondbull424]

8 hours ago, berlin calling said:

want to trade up for him? Ravens are picking #20 in the 2nd round.

Well I’m not sure where exactly in the second round he’ll go. On some boards he’s the #6 OT in the class and then on others, he’s not even listed. He won’t get a senior bowl to boost his stock, so all he has is his pro day and the combine. So he could be a second round pick, but just as easily be a 4th/5th round selection, hard to tell at this point. But just based off of talent, I think he has a 1st round skill set.

In terms of trading up, this seems like a fairly deep draft, but not necessarily top elite, so I’d rather trade down, like has been said and stack up on picks in that 3rd/4th round range.