Cheesehawk Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, disaacs said: I'm only surprised that they actually did what I said they had to do. For a team to lose 1 player and completely collapse is and should be unacceptable, and is a sign of a bad job done by the general manager. Yes, Rodgers is, by far, the most important cog, but they shouldn't fall as far as they did without him. You build your team around a generational talent. It's a bad job to not do that. If he goes down, yeah you are gonna fall. Packers went 3-7 without Rodgers this year and 3 of those losses were to Playoff teams, with two of them being teams that won't play until the 2nd week of playoffs. Obviously you hope for better.. but lets not act like it was some major failure for a team to go 7-9 while missing the leagues best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, packerrfan74 said: You build your team around a generational talent. It's a bad job to not do that. If he goes down, yeah you are gonna fall. Packers went 3-7 without Rodgers this year and 3 of those losses were to Playoff teams, with two of them being teams that won't play until the 2nd week of playoffs. Obviously you hope for better.. but lets not act like it was some major failure for a team to go 7-9 while missing the leagues best player. You can try and convince yourself of that, but as you saw when they faced the Vikings in Lambeau, that was a dull game because everyone knew that the Packers had zero shot to win at home, despite the Vikings doing so little offensively. The Packers, without Rodgers, couldn't win at home (including a loss to NO...a game in which Rodgers' replacement couldn't even hit 100 yds passing) and struggled mightily even in the games they won against horrible teams. They only went 7-9 because they were staked to a 4-1 cushion by Rodgers. If they hadn't had Rodgers for those 5 games at the start of the season, that's a 5-win team at best. That should be unacceptable for any regime that has been in charge as long as they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 16 hours ago, ArthurPensky said: They’ve won a super bowl, went to three nfc championships, and playoffs 8 straight years under TT. I’d hardly call that “wasting”. Winning Super Bowls isn’t exactly easy as should be evident for a Vikings fan. I've been a TT detractor for a number of years, but even I will agree that this is a fair statement. TT made some good moves early on and had a good run. He just stayed longer than he should have. He also played a HUGE role bungling the end of Brett Favre's career in Green Bay, but entire threads have been made on that, so this is probably not the time or place to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 34 minutes ago, disaacs said: I'm only surprised that they actually did what I said they had to do. For a team to lose 1 player and completely collapse is and should be unacceptable, and is a sign of a bad job done by the general manager. Yes, Rodgers is, by far, the most important cog, but they shouldn't fall as far as they did without him. It isn't like the Packers were flat out terrible. Rodgers wasn't the only injury they had to deal with and their schedule was one of the hardest in the NFL. They had close losses to the Saints and Steelers. I don't think you can blame the Packers too much for Hundley underwhelming - finding a back-up QB to start the rest of the season for you and do well isn't an easy task. Your team had to trade a 1st round pick for Bradford last year for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesehawk Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, disaacs said: You can try and convince yourself of that, but as you saw when they faced the Vikings in Lambeau, that was a dull game because everyone knew that the Packers had zero shot to win at home, despite the Vikings doing so little offensively. The Packers, without Rodgers, couldn't win at home (including a loss to NO...a game in which Rodgers' replacement couldn't even hit 100 yds passing) and struggled mightily even in the games they won against horrible teams. They only went 7-9 because they were staked to a 4-1 cushion by Rodgers. If they hadn't had Rodgers for those 5 games at the start of the season, that's a 5-win team at best. That should be unacceptable for any regime that has been in charge as long as they have. You're not gonna convince me I'm wrong by pointing to a game against a conference leading division rival, a week after we were eliminated from the playoffs, playing our back-up QB against a top flight defense missing our primary wide receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, disaacs said: No, you can't win it every year, but to have 2 HOF QBs in 25 years and only have 2 SBs to show for it, that's practically embarrassing. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ha. A viking fan calling any other organization 'embarassing' is rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 37 minutes ago, packerrfan74 said: You're not gonna convince me I'm wrong by pointing to a game against a conference leading division rival, a week after we were eliminated from the playoffs, playing our back-up QB against a top flight defense missing our primary wide receiver. Right. Coneveniently ignores we weren't trying to win that game at all. We rested half our starters for cripes sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ha. A viking fan calling any other organization 'embarassing' is rich. We're one of the better run organizations in football. Only thing missing is the Super Bowl trophy. Top 5 head coach Top 3 Stadium New HQs are being built right now Lots of players being elected to the HOF Couldn't ask for much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 52 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: I've been a TT detractor for a number of years, but even I will agree that this is a fair statement. TT made some good moves early on and had a good run. He just stayed longer than he should have. He also played a HUGE role bungling the end of Brett Favre's career in Green Bay, but entire threads have been made on that, so this is probably not the time or place to discuss it. I disagree on the "Bungling". He and MM also had the stones to move on from Favre, which was obviously the right move and a tough decision to make. That's something I would add to his resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 33 minutes ago, iknowcool said: It isn't like the Packers were flat out terrible. Rodgers wasn't the only injury they had to deal with and their schedule was one of the hardest in the NFL. They had close losses to the Saints and Steelers. I don't think you can blame the Packers too much for Hundley underwhelming - finding a back-up QB to start the rest of the season for you and do well isn't an easy task. Your team had to trade a 1st round pick for Bradford last year for that reason. I'll agree that he wasn't the only injury that they had to deal with, but the Saints game was a home game. With Rodgers, they aren't passing for 87 yards, so they'd win that game with him and the Steelers have been notorious for pulling a Vikings-like move in playing to the level of the competition. I'll also agree with the last point, it is certainly difficult to find a quality backup, as the Vikings lucked into it, for the first time in eons, but for an organization to be in charge as long as they have been, and not really develop a competent backup should be a black mark as well, just as it has been for our organization to not develop a quality starting QB as well. They've certainly had the time and the resources to do so. It didn't begin or end with Hundley. It also happened with Flynn and Harrell. Flynn had the makings of a decent backup QB, but even he turned out to be incompetent. In the end, for all the good things that Ted did, which I can respect for afar, as he did identify a lot of good talent late in the draft, his failings far outweighed the successes, because his early round picks didn't pan out more often than not, and his lack of testing the free agent market at all (except for a rare instance like Woodson) did a disservice to the franchise, as he didn't put them in a good place for consistent playoff success. He relied far too often on his late round hits and not enough on identifying high quality talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, TENINCH said: We're one of the better run organizations in football. Only thing missing is the Super Bowl trophy. Top 5 head coach Top 3 Stadium New HQs are being built right now Lots of players being elected to the HOF Couldn't ask for much more. "The" super bowl trophy... the best run organizations aren't shooting for SB #1. They're going for 5th, 6th, or 7th SB trophy's. Top 3 stadium is definitely your subjective opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, TENINCH said: We're one of the better run organizations in football. Only thing missing is the Super Bowl trophy. Top 5 head coach Top 3 Stadium New HQs are being built right now Lots of players being elected to the HOF Couldn't ask for much more. Top 5 HC with zero postseason wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Talk about the pot calling the kettle black ha. A viking fan calling any other organization 'embarassing' is rich. The discussion is not about our organization, as I understand the history of it having been a fan since I was child in the early 80s, and it has had it's more than it's fair share of low moments and underachievement (generally self-inflicted). It's about your organization. I can separate it and view the Packers' organization as if I were a fan. I'd be disappointed with the lack of playoff success despite having 2 HOF QBs. Just as I was pissed about getting absolutely no return from the Denny era (and generally having a first round exit every year), I would be as pissed for getting only 1 SB a piece from the Favre and Rodgers' eras. If you can accept that, more power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, disaacs said: The discussion is not about our organization, as I understand the history of it having been a fan since I was child in the early 80s, and it has had it's more than it's fair share of low moments and underachievement (generally self-inflicted). It's about your organization. I can separate it and view the Packers' organization as if I were a fan. I'd be disappointed with the lack of playoff success despite having 2 HOF QBs. If you can accept that, more power to you. This is some mental gymnastics. I'm not disappointed for having two HOF QBs. I'd be way more disappointed to have had zero QBs and zero trophies. I don't get this sentiment at all. It's clearly an attempt to discredit a franchise you don't care for, but the criticism doesn't hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, TENINCH said: We're one of the better run organizations in football. Only thing missing is the Super Bowl trophy. Top 5 head coach Top 3 Stadium New HQs are bein built right now Lots of players being elected to the HOF Couldn't ask for much more. What does HOF have to do with how an organization is run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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