WaitWhat Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Pretty crazy to think that while the Giants did turn their defense around the very next season and spent a ton of money to do it, all it got them was a wildcard round beat down. Then this disastrous season happened. Can’t imagine the meltdowns if that happened with the Packers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, WaitWhat said: Pretty crazy to think that while the Giants did turn their defense around the very next season and spent a ton of money to do it, all it got them was a wildcard round beat down. Then this disastrous season happened. Can’t imagine the meltdowns if that happened with the Packers. They'd pretty much say, "How can (GM) be so stupid as to sign three huge free agent contracts, then NOT cut them the next year in order to sign another three?" I seriously hate free agency. All the morons remember are the good ones. They don't remember that 9/10 free agent signings don't work out. Vernon was had a 2.3 million dollar cap hit for every sack this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Shanedorf said: Lots of NFL coaches fail at being a HC. It doesn't mean MM failed in developing them - it means that they didn't succeed as HCs. Those are two very different things. Many coordinators don't make that leap successfully, and many of the college HCs fail in making that leap as well. MM and the Packers developed those guys enough to garner HC consideration and to impress front offices during their interviews. It didn't work out. But no coaches have worked out in Miami, so is that an indictment of Philbin or Miami ? The NYGs went all in with an aged and crappy QB and spent a bazillion on defensive FAs. That didn't work out either, but how much of that failure is because MM allegedly didn't develop McAdoo ? Pretty hard to say. I don't think either of those gents are HC material under any circumstances, but I also don't believe that has anything to do with their development in GB or lack thereof. Therefore, I do not buy your conclusions above. I'll acknowledge that there is a ton of variance in terms of what impacts a team's success. But GB produces ZERO candidates, let alone any successful candidates. Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, Marvin Lewis, Jay Gruden produced the following in the similar time frame that McCarthy has been coaching GB. Head coaches: Doug Pederson, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Jay Gruden, Mike Zimmer, Dan Quinn, Ron Rivera, John Harbaugh, Vance Joseph, Hue Jackson Coordinators: Gus Bradley, Leslie Frazier, Steve Spagnuolo, Pat Shurmur, Marquand Manuel, Robert Saleh The most exciting options are Winston Moss, Darren Perry, and Joe Whitt Jr. None of which get serious consideration from head coaches for even a coordinator position. There is a MASSIVE apparent chasm between our top offensive coach and top defensive coach and our assistants/position coaches. None have been prepared to handle the reigns of their side of the ball. McCarthy tried to prop up some of his guys, like AVP by giving him WRs and QBs and Tom Clements with OC/Asst HC and playcaller. They fell SO HARD on their faces that he was forced to take back control of playcalling and OC duties. Clements is no longer in the league, Bennett is rumored to be taking a demotion from "in title only OC" back to RBs coach. 2016 was an excellent offense, the 4th highest scoring team in the league, and no one wanted to sniff at Tom Clements. If McCarthy were fired today, he would be the best HC candidate to hit the market since John Harbaugh and Andy Reid. And yet he has no talent on his staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I’d like to see what Mac can do with a different DC and GM, I’m down with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: I'll acknowledge that there is a ton of variance in terms of what impacts a team's success. But GB produces ZERO candidates, let alone any successful candidates. Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, Marvin Lewis, Jay Gruden produced the following in the similar time frame that McCarthy has been coaching GB. Head coaches: Doug Pederson, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Jay Gruden, Mike Zimmer, Dan Quinn, Ron Rivera, John Harbaugh, Vance Joseph, Hue Jackson Coordinators: Gus Bradley, Leslie Frazier, Steve Spagnuolo, Pat Shurmur, Marquand Manuel, Robert Saleh The most exciting options are Winston Moss, Darren Perry, and Joe Whitt Jr. None of which get serious consideration from head coaches for even a coordinator position. There is a MASSIVE apparent chasm between our top offensive coach and top defensive coach and our assistants/position coaches. None have been prepared to handle the reigns of their side of the ball. McCarthy tried to prop up some of his guys, like AVP by giving him WRs and QBs and Tom Clements with OC/Asst HC and playcaller. They fell SO HARD on their faces that he was forced to take back control of playcalling and OC duties. Clements is no longer in the league, Bennett is rumored to be taking a demotion from "in title only OC" back to RBs coach. 2016 was an excellent offense, the 4th highest scoring team in the league, and no one wanted to sniff at Tom Clements. If McCarthy were fired today, he would be the best HC candidate to hit the market since John Harbaugh and Andy Reid. And yet he has no talent on his staff. Stupid correction, but back to wr coach, not RB. Interesting post. Never ever pondered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack Man Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 hours ago, deltarich87 said: Yep. New ideas needed on both sides of the ball in GB. I also think Mac's game management would improve more with him giving up playcalling duties What game time management? I havn't seen any on ether side of the ball lately, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 hours ago, deltarich87 said: Yep. New ideas needed on both sides of the ball in GB. I also think Mac's game management would improve more with him giving up playcalling duties Didn't work last time that I remember lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 4 hours ago, cannondale said: Far be it for me to road block anyone's career but sometimes a former RB should just simply coach RB's etc You mean you didn't like when our RB coach was an ex qb. Wr coach was ex RB. QB coach was ex TE. Or whatever it was. Plenty of guys coach positions they didn't play but I don't think I like it. Especially not a bunch of it at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said: You mean you didn't like when our RB coach was an ex qb. Wr coach was ex RB. QB coach was ex TE. Or whatever it was. Plenty of guys coach positions they didn't play but I don't think I like it. Especially not a bunch of it at once Sometimes common sense works best. I know there are a million examples of where someone starts out but not everyone is the next Bill Walsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, cannondale said: Sometimes common sense works best. I know there are a million examples of where someone starts out but not everyone is the next Bill Walsh I have complained about it for ages. We only really do it on offense too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGreen Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 We need a play-calling OC. I don't mind giving Mac a couple more years, but I do think things have gotten a little stale. Hopefully a new GM, new DC (thank goodness), and someone else calling plays will change that. Late with a lot of this stuff, but happy it's finally being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 The extension is pretty irrelevant other than guaranteeing MM coaches 2018. If he doesnt have solid results (I'd guess NFCCG or better) I'd say he's probably toast after next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddfather Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 This franchise behind NE has been the definition of stability. Sometimes to a fault. I think this makes a lot of sense. Shows MM is still in charge of this football team even thought there will be new blood in the GM position. I just don't believe this hadn't already been decided for awhile. I am fine with MM, and I do think he hasn't lost the locker room. That being said changes needed to be made, so now lets see back and see what happens. It could be an awesome offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Toddfather said: This franchise behind NE has been the definition of stability. Sometimes to a fault. I think this makes a lot of sense. Shows MM is still in charge of this football team even thought there will be new blood in the GM position. I just don't believe this hadn't already been decided for awhile. I am fine with MM, and I do think he hasn't lost the locker room. That being said changes needed to be made, so now lets see back and see what happens. It could be an awesome offseason. IDK if this is true but I read Wilde said Ted was extended one year the same time as Mike. I don't even know where to begin if that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 27 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: I'll acknowledge that there is a ton of variance in terms of what impacts a team's success. But GB produces ZERO candidates, let alone any successful candidates. Opinions vary, but the fact is that the Packers have produced (2) NFL head coaches from MM's staff in Philbin and McAdoo. They were chosen from among several worthy candidates by legacy NFL teams. Andy Reid has developed some NFL HC's, the same way as he was developed under Holmgren. But I want our HC to win Titles and Andy Reid hasn't managed to do that yet. So Andy gets the staff hiring/development award and he certainly deserves credit for those successes. As far as Tom Clements, he started out his playcalling season 6-0, which you've labelled as falling hard on his face. That's one interpretation, but it does not take into account Jordy being lost for the year (ACL) or Adams injuring both his knee and his ankle or Eddie Lacy ballooning up and becoming ineffective or having to pull James Jones off the scrap heap to play 90% of the offensive snaps. Or a having a TE room of Rodgers/Quarless/Perillo All of those conspired to stress the offense like never before. Many would agree that's relevant info for making a Tom Clements assessment. Rodgers credited Clements as being extremely critical to his development and was reportedly bummed when TC left. And Clements certainly has a strong football mind, that's another thing AR talked about. Maybe Clements wasn't HC material, maybe he didn't want to be an HC. Lots that we don't know . Most coaches aren't cut out to be NFL HC's. So even if you develop them to their fullest potential, that may only mean a being a good position coach or coordinator for some of these guys. No shame in that from my viewpoint IMO, Edgar Bennett has been developed about as far as he can go in the NFL- as an OC. That's OK. Bennett's not HC material imo, so I can't ding MM for not developing him into one. But MM did have him learn RB, WR and OL as part of his coaching development That's why I pushed back on some of your conclusions. We just view some things differently . No big deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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