Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
kempus

Cycling Thread: Froome does the double

Recommended Posts

kyle21121    18

Yea I'm not totally sure how I feel about Froome not from any possible scandal I just always root against dominance much like I rooted against Lance prior to the scandal and something I often think about with Lance was how could I not have known he was doping? In retrospect it seems so obvious there is no way he could have won like he did or how he did and there were certainly moments when I felt like that with Froome more so in the Vuelta this year it just seems like he was that much better than anybody else and the team was just that much better than any other team it's hard not to at least think about that sort of thing. I don't recall ever seeing Lance in any sort of difficulty and I seem to see Froome have one bad day in each GT I've ever seen him participate in. I'm not gonna accuse anyone but even being out of the conversation and not hearing too much about people statements it is something I've at least thought about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kempus    13
51 minutes ago, kyle21121 said:

Yea I'm not totally sure how I feel about Froome not from any possible scandal I just always root against dominance much like I rooted against Lance prior to the scandal and something I often think about with Lance was how could I not have known he was doping? In retrospect it seems so obvious there is no way he could have won like he did or how he did and there were certainly moments when I felt like that with Froome more so in the Vuelta this year it just seems like he was that much better than anybody else and the team was just that much better than any other team it's hard not to at least think about that sort of thing. I don't recall ever seeing Lance in any sort of difficulty and I seem to see Froome have one bad day in each GT I've ever seen him participate in. I'm not gonna accuse anyone but even being out of the conversation and not hearing too much about people statements it is something I've at least thought about. 

Sadly, I think that's the tainted nature of cycling. People assume they must be doping because cycling has a history of it and they are a dominant team. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they were doping, but I'm more happy to watch greatness and assume innocence. It's no fun if you think everyone is cheating. If Froome never had a bad day and won every race he entered, there may be concern. But, he has bad days and he doesn't win everything. It took him four attempts to win the Vuelta. 

Sky should be the best with the best riders. Their budget dwarfs the rest of the peloton. It's how they can afford the Superdomestiques, who otherwise would likely be leaders at other teams. Thomas, Poels, Landa, Kwiatkowski and probably Nieve, could all lead a team at a GT. That's how Sky have multiple people at the end of climbs, they have a team of GC guys haha. But, it's not always perfect as we have seen. Which is why I prefer to think that Froome is just one of the all time greats in an all time great team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kyle21121    18

Yea but people are kinda conditioned that way it's in no way fair and I certainly would love to assume innocence and of course the budget is huge and it's an astounding collection of riders who could be GC guys but still it's hard to just completely ignore. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kempus    13

World Championships are in a couple of days. Will be interesting to see who becomes World Champion. It's a big prize in the cycling world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kyle21121    18
14 minutes ago, kempus said:

World Championships are in a couple of days. Will be interesting to see who becomes World Champion. It's a big prize in the cycling world.

Will they be on Eurosport?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
texans_uk    253

No Cav for GB. 

The course is leaning towards Classic type riders rather than out and out sprinters. A breakaway has a chance. 

Peter Sagan heavy favourite. 

I'd like to see Kwiatkowski up there after his work in the TdF. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mse326    32

What makes Classics races, or this World Championship course, more suited for some riders than grand tour GC riders? I get that with no real mountains that is a big place where people, especially sprinters, can't hang, but are the GC guys really not good enough to be favorites in these races?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
texans_uk    253
1 hour ago, mse326 said:

What makes Classics races, or this World Championship course, more suited for some riders than grand tour GC riders? I get that with no real mountains that is a big place where people, especially sprinters, can't hang, but are the GC guys really not good enough to be favorites in these races?

I think the GC guys could probably hang, but they just aren't tailored to these kind of courses. You've got to remember the GC guys spend months training for the gruelling days of major tours, these kinds of races just aren't suited to them. 

You also have to think, nobody is going to let them get in a breakaway and then aren't going to win a bunch sprint. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mse326    32
2 minutes ago, texans_uk said:

I think the GC guys could probably hang, but they just aren't tailored to these kind of courses. You've got to remember the GC guys spend months training for the gruelling days of major tours, these kinds of races just aren't suited to them. 

You also have to think, nobody is going to let them get in a breakaway and then aren't going to win a bunch sprint. 

I guess my thought is that in theory they should have stronger legs that maybe they can push the pace fast enough that the sprinters wouldn't be able to hang.

So then I guess my next question is why stage races are generally held in higher esteem. Why is a stage race GC guy considered better than a great one-day racer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
texans_uk    253
6 minutes ago, mse326 said:

I guess my thought is that in theory they should have stronger legs that maybe they can push the pace fast enough that the sprinters wouldn't be able to hang.

It's kinda like comparing a 100m runner with a 1500m runner with a 10km runner. 

The 10km guys are your GC guys they are your GT podium finishers. Your 1500m guys are your classics riders, they have a good deal of pace and stamina, they can hang to a degree with the sprinters and the long distance but not regularly, then you have the 100m runner who can sprint but have no stamina. 

Or at least that's been my take. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mse326    32
Just now, texans_uk said:

It's kinda like comparing a 100m runner with a 1500m runner with a 10km runner. 

The 10km guys are your GC guys they are your GT podium finishers. Your 1500m guys are your classics riders, they have a good deal of pace and stamina, they can hang to a degree with the sprinters and the long distance but not regularly, then you have the 100m runner who can sprint but have no stamina. 

Or at least that's been my take. 

Makes sense. How often is there crossover? Like Peter Sagan I know was a favorite to win sprint stages in the TDF. So is he both a classic and sprinter? Are there any guys that classic and GC still around or is that time gone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
texans_uk    253
Just now, mse326 said:

Makes sense. How often is there crossover? Like Peter Sagan I know was a favorite to win sprint stages in the TDF. So is he both a classic and sprinter? Are there any guys that classic and GC still around or is that time gone?

@kempus will know far more than I. I'm a TdF fanboy who dabbles in other Tours and the odd classic or WC. Cav was my big inspiration.

I think there are a few like Sagan who can compete with sprinters on a good day although only when conditions allow. In a straight up sprint Kittel, Griepel and Cavendish destroy Sagan. 

It's rare to find a GC who also competes in the Classics. I don't even think Lance won many? Most of those guys target the tours and the tours alone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
texans_uk    253

I'm struggling to find the last tour winner who won one of the monuments. Nibali won the Lombardi in 2015 but didn't win a GT that year. Valverde has won 4.

Typically you have sprinters, time trialists or puncheurs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mse326    32
3 minutes ago, texans_uk said:

I'm struggling to find the last tour winner who won one of the monuments. Nibali won the Lombardi in 2015 but didn't win a GT that year. Valverde has won 4.

Typically you have sprinters, time trialists or puncheurs.

I know the first two, what are puncheurs? Are all GC riders puncheurs because many of them don't seem good in time trials nor would they obviously be sprinters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
texans_uk    253
12 minutes ago, mse326 said:

I know the first two, what are puncheurs? Are all GC riders puncheurs because many of them don't seem good in time trials nor would they obviously be sprinters

Sorry, puncheurs are guys like Sagan or Gilbert, they are very successful at short steep climbs. Most of Sagan's tour victories have come on stages with short steep finishes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  



×