mse326 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 24 minutes ago, texans_uk said: Sorry, puncheurs are guys like Sagan or Gilbert, they are very successful at short steep climbs. Most of Sagan's tour victories have come on stages with short steep finishes. OK. And the GC guys are generally all-arounders though they may not be great at one of them (like Chaves and Bardet at TT)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted September 14, 2017 Author Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) Lots of questions to address in here haha. The first one is why there is more prestige in the GC races. That's not entirely true. The most prestigious races are the three Grand Tours, with the Tour De France at the top. But, beyond that, the next category of races are probably one day races. They are called The Monuments, and they consist of Milan-San Remo, the Tour of Flanders, Paris-Roubaix, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. These are the five oldest and most prestigious one day races that occupy the space below the three GTs. http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/the-monuments-cyclings-five-biggest-one-day-races-217260. Here is an excellent write up and summary on them. As mentioned in the article, there are different types of classic one day races. You have the ones that are straight sprints, such as; Milan-San Remo and the two Candian one day classics. You have the Northern one day classics, which are usually characterized by cobbled sections and wet, tough conditions. Such as: Paris-Roubaix and E3 Harelbeke. Next is the punchers classics which include relentless, sharp ascents and descents. These are Liege-Bastogne-Liege and the Tour of Flanders. Finally it is the GC classic in Il Lombardia, which has longer climbs and is more suited to the GC guys. Now, it obviously takes a special kind of skill to be able to ride on the cobbles and to master the short punchy climbs (puncheurs). The GC guys are trained to be able to sustain a speed over a long climb, not to be able to explode over short and regular climbs. This is why the GC guys usually don't challenge for the one day classics, unless the course allows for it. The World Championships course changes every year, so some years it favours the sprinters, other times it favours the puncheurs and rarely theres a course for the GC guys. Someone like Sagan is so successful because he is a hybrid between the two. He can climb with the climbers and also sprint with the sprinters. He's fairly unique. GC guys are usually climbers or great time trialists. However, to be a successful GC guy, you need to either be fantastic at one and adequate at the other disciplines or good at both. As you've seen with Bardet, you can't be an awful TTer and win a grand tour. Or if you do, it's a rarity. Likewise, you can't win a GT solely on being a great Time trialier. @mse326 Edited September 14, 2017 by kempus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 hour ago, mse326 said: OK. And the GC guys are generally all-arounders though they may not be great at one of them (like Chaves and Bardet at TT)? Generally yes. Froome is one of the best in recent history. There hasn't been another GC guy who can TT like him (apart from Wiggins) and climb and sprint to a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 So is the TTT pro teams but the road race national teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, kyle21121 said: So is the TTT pro teams but the road race national teams? Yes. http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uci-road-world-championships-2017/preview/ Good summary of this years world championships. Edited September 15, 2017 by kempus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 3 hours ago, kempus said: Yes. http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uci-road-world-championships-2017/preview/ Good summary of this years world championships. Thanks that was quite informative but it still strikes me as odd to have pro teams in one event and national teams in another event like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, kyle21121 said: Thanks that was quite informative but it still strikes me as odd to have pro teams in one event and national teams in another event like that. Yeah, it is weird. I don't know what they reformatted it like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 16 hours ago, kempus said: Someone like Sagan is so successful because he is a hybrid between the two I'd really like to see him try and make a full transition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, kempus said: Yeah, it is weird. I don't know what they reformatted it like that. I had no idea the TTT was pro teams. How odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, texans_uk said: I had no idea the TTT was pro teams. How odd. I don't think I like that but I'd imagine some nations only have 1-4 participants and I think they want to do at least 5 or 6 riders to start the TTT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, kyle21121 said: I don't think I like that but I'd imagine some nations only have 1-4 participants and I think they want to do at least 5 or 6 riders to start the TTT. Its really weird. I think it's partially because the TTT is a tough skill to master, it takes practice. The guys are more likely to practice in their teams, but they won't have in their nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 That was my thought when I saw it. Do national teams ever practice together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 6 hours ago, mse326 said: That was my thought when I saw it. Do national teams ever practice together? Not really. Not on the road. Obviously the track guys do for the Olympics etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 I guess I'll make predictions TTT: Sky TT: Dumoulin RR: Sagan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 2 hours ago, kyle21121 said: I guess I'll make predictions TTT: Sky TT: Dumoulin RR: Sagan My guess would be: TTT: BMC TT: Froome RR: Matthews Sagan is sick, apparently. I think the three favourites for the TTT are Sky, Quick Step and BMC. Froome winning the TT is dependant on how much he has left in the legs. Dumoulin is probably the favourite. He's been preparing for this event for the second half of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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