kempus Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 55 minutes ago, kyle21121 said: That makes a lot of sense to get both of the Yates brothers whenever they becomes available. I agree with the second part and giving Thomas a shot but they should always be looking ahead for the next star that could win a tour. When the had Wiggins they were pretty lucky to have Froome waiting in the wings and I think they would want to have the same scenario again in a few years when Froome is either in the decline or contemplating retirement. For sure. I'm not sure who that next star is, though. I think it could easily be Adam or Simon Yates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKTexans Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, kempus said: For sure. I'm not sure who that next star is, though. I think it could easily be Adam or Simon Yates. Back to back white jerseys. Those boys are special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 17 minutes ago, texans_uk said: Back to back white jerseys. Those boys are special. Both have huge potential. I heard that they're both riding the Vualta. That could be explosive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, kempus said: Both have huge potential. I heard that they're both riding the Vualta. That could be explosive. That would be fantastic like Andy and Frank for several years love to see them ride together on the same team in at least one of the GTs. I don't know who the next big star is right now lots of young talented riders 27 or under right now. I like Barguil though he's gonna be my guy for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 I think Dumoulin is on Sunweb though and I'd also want to say Bardet but I don't think he can win the tour unless he dramatically improves at the TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, kyle21121 said: I think Dumoulin is on Sunweb though and I'd also want to say Bardet but I don't think he can win the tour unless he dramatically improves at the TT. Bargiul, Bardet and Aru all need to seriously improve their TT if they want to beat Froome, Porte, Dumoulin or even Quintana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, kempus said: Bargiul, Bardet and Aru all need to seriously improve their TT if they want to beat Froome, Porte, Dumoulin or even Quintana. That's true. Bardet looks like a disaster but Aru and Barguil are just bad. Contador improved dramatically but that's an aberration compared to others like Schleck, Andy. He did have a tour win despite being a very bad TT however that was the Contador spoiled fish stripped title year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 58 minutes ago, kyle21121 said: That's true. Bardet looks like a disaster but Aru and Barguil are just bad. Contador improved dramatically but that's an aberration compared to others like Schleck, Andy. He did have a tour win despite being a very bad TT however that was the Contador spoiled fish stripped title year. The Tour de France pretty much requires you to have a good TT if you're going to win. Going back 40+ years and there's only a few guys who won it who weren't at least good at the TT. The Vuelta and Giro are much more forgiving because they usually have tougher and more mountain stages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, kempus said: The Tour de France pretty much requires you to have a good TT if you're going to win. Going back 40+ years and there's only a few guys who won it who weren't at least good at the TT. The Vuelta and Giro are much more forgiving because they usually have tougher and more mountain stages. True. I wasn't really arguing that more so giving perhaps the one example with Andy as a poor TT in the past 15-20 years in which he did win and even then it involved retroactively removing Contador's win. They don't win the tour but they can improve their TT and have a shot now Andy didn't but Contador was able to before he won and Bardet likely can't but I don't think Aru or Barguil are as awful as he is and could improve but it would still be unlikely. The Giro and Vuelta are much different and don't require the same importance on the TT. The Giro some years is absolutely insane with the climbs and it seems every day in the Vuelta is at least a little bit hilly. I'll also point out Bardet (and Barguil) is French and may not be given the opportunity to ride the Giro or Vuelta because he (they) understands the importance of a French rider possibly winning that for the first time since 1985. I feel bad writing off Bardet but I kinda have to I don't want to completely write off Aru or Barguil quite yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Regarding the TT in general if I had it my way I would prefer a slightly longer prologue 20km, a Team TT on like stage 9 of about 50km and the final TT possibly being a Mountain TT of 40-55km. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Why would you want a Team TT in an individual race. Doesn't that necessarily put the thumb on the scales for a great rider on a great team at the expense of a similarly great rider on a meh team? The latter is already at a disadvantage at not having the same amount of help, no need to make it exponentially worse with a team time trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, mse326 said: Why would you want a Team TT in an individual race. Doesn't that necessarily put the thumb on the scales for a great rider on a great team at the expense of a similarly great rider on a meh team? The latter is already at a disadvantage at not having the same amount of help, no need to make it exponentially worse with a team time trial. Well I like the dynamic of the Team TT and it's something that hasn't been done in the tour for a while I wouldn't want this every but I do enjoy it. It certainly would greatly benefit someone like Froome for having such great team in Sky while it would hurt Uran or someone else on a lesser team. I can't disagree with that and if the field was a little more even and not having most of our discussion about who can knock of Froome in this thread thus far it would make sense from about 06-12 it was a different rider winning every year and there was no super dominant team post USPS and pre Sky. The idea would be to cut up the field mid tour. I know there was only one TT at the end aside from the prologue but I remember when a second TT (sometimes a TTT) was the norm in the tour around mid point before heading into the mountains. Only the top 4 or 5 riders time count so you wouldn't necessarily have to slow down to the sprinter or poor TT on you're team you can let the stragglers go off the back. And in the case of Bardet he can totally sit back and let the team pace him through that stage and not have to do any of the hard work. There would be benefits to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 I think the set up of TTs was actually pretty good this year. Even though it seriously lacked length, it was still the difference maker. If they added more TT, they need way more mountain top finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kempus Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 I'm also a fan of the TTT, for what it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle21121 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Just now, kempus said: I think the set up of TTs was actually pretty good this year. Even though it seriously lacked length, it was still the difference maker. If they added more TT, they need way more mountain top finishes. The tour definitely needed more mountain top finishes. The length was definitely too short if you wanna keep a 22km final TT I wouldn't mind having the second TT mid tour either Team or not and possibly a mountain TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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