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2 hours ago, wgbeethree said:

LOL. No you're not.

 

2 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

@skibrett15, quote me so I can remember to respond to everything when I’m not at work.  I’m tempted to offer you 50 dollars to make a 30 yard field goal, too.

 

1 hour ago, Norm said:

Dude this is Matt Bryant's account!!! Sign me autographs

*kicking.  Not making.  I wouldn't kick it past the LOS.  But I'm capable of kicking it.  Problem is crosby isn't capable of *making* 50 yarders consistently.

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1 hour ago, Norm said:

If he makes a video of him making a 50 yard field goal, 2 of 5 I'll give him WELL over 50 dollars

Hell, 1 of 5

Edit: all makes sense now. Kid was HS kicker and thinks he could have been a pro. I know someone JUST like this. 

JHC i'm not saying I can kick.  Never attempted a FG in my life and I'm sure I would suck at it.  I'm saying I could *attempt* 50 yard FGs just fine as long as you don't expect any to go through the upright.  Crosby's problem is he doesn't make em at a high rate, not that he doesn't attempt them.

Edited by skibrett15
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7 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

 

 

*kicking.  Not making.  I wouldn't kick it past the LOS.  But I'm capable of kicking it.  Problem is crosby isn't capable of *making* 50 yarders consistently.

Well this is EASILY the greatest definition of moving the goal posts of all time lol

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5 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

JHC i'm not saying I can kick.  Never attempted a FG in my life and I'm sure I would suck at it.  I'm saying I could *attempt* 50 yard FGs just fine as long as you don't expect any to go through the upright.  Crosby's problem is he doesn't make em at a high rate, not that he doesn't attempt them.

I'm sure someone has posted croz versus everyone at kicking 50+ IN lambeau. I bet it's not that bad. Plus they trust him so that can hurt. 

I don't think he's a great kicker but ****. 

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35 minutes ago, Norm said:

Well this is EASILY the greatest definition of moving the goal posts of all time lol

it's what i meant when i typed it.  You moved the goalposts just as much as I did.  Just addressing the fact that he said he consistently *kicks* the FGs from 50+.  When what you want is a kicker who consistently *makes* the FGs, not a guy who *kicks* them because he has the misplaced trust of a coach.

Just read the post again.  It was funny you all thought I was saying I could kick, but you just didn't get what I was calling out.  I get where it was fun to pile on and make that assumption, and my post wasn't super clear (well, in the aggregate it was pretty sparkling, but on that specific point there was some ambiguity)

34 minutes ago, Norm said:

I'm sure someone has posted croz versus everyone at kicking 50+ IN lambeau. I bet it's not that bad. Plus they trust him so that can hurt. 

I don't think he's a great kicker but ****. 

I did.  And it really depends on what you mean by not that bad.  If you're content to overpay an average player because there is no alternative to using the Cap $ elsewhere, sure.  Not that bad.

he's statistically the same as every kicker he's ever faced  across *any* reasonable sample at *every* range in *every* location in NFL earth.  He's the definition of an average player who has the cap hit of the 2nd best player at position.  It's a REALLY  simple concept that you all choose to ignore I guess.  Cutting daniels and crosby could have landed Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy.  Now it could bring back Mo Wilkerson and make Dean Lowry expendable.

 

It's when you have people going on rants about "literally stupid" trying to get rid of Crosby which are based on irrelevant facts and asinine superstition that you find these hamster wheel excuses for why to keep him.  Best reasons to keep him I can think of are that he's rodgers' friend.  And I thought we were done coddling the QB, but that's honestly the only legit reason to keep him.  Otherwise, the FO message is, we're too scared to try and improve every chance we get.

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Now I really want to try kicking a field goal.  I want to see whether or not I could make one.  I remember I could punt a ball hella far back in the day.  

And it still is stupid to cut Crosby.  I’ll stay on that hamster wheel all year long.  You’re talking about saving 3 million dollars when the best available free agent kicker is Parkey.  If you don’t think that’s stupid, finish my sentence.

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5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Now I really want to try kicking a field goal.  I want to see whether or not I could make one.  I remember I could punt a ball hella far back in the day.  

And it still is stupid to cut Crosby.  I’ll stay on that hamster wheel all year long.  You’re talking about saving 3 million dollars when the best available free agent kicker is Parkey.  If you don’t think that’s stupid, finish my sentence.

I'm fairly confident I could kick make at least 33% from the old PAT line

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Crosby is a career 80% kicker. Gostkowski is 87% career. I’m not saying cut Crosby, but always be looking for the next Gostkowski. 

 

Now, a part of it is MM sending Crosby out there in ridiculous situations too. Crosby might be more like 83% if you take out MMs decision making. And if you take out that one bad year, I guess he’s damn solid. 

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for what it's worth, PFR has expected points data for every play in their database. Crosby's average is -0.11 points per kick vs. expected. Opponents average +0.09 points per kick vs. average. I suspect that has at least as much to do with coaching decision-making as it does with kicking performance though.

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1 hour ago, skibrett15 said:

...If you're content to overpay an average player because there is no alternative to using the Cap $ elsewhere, sure.  Not that bad.

he's statistically the same as every kicker he's ever faced  across *any* reasonable sample at *every* range in *every* location in NFL earth.  He's the definition of an average player who has the cap hit of the 2nd best player at position.  It's a REALLY  simple concept .....

Suppose management has the same evaluation, that he's an average player but is due the 2nd-highest kicker salary.  And then suppose they decide to keep him on the roster anyway.  What might be the logic?  I see the following options:  

  1. They are dumb, so they make illogical decisions.
  2. You mentioned for off-field reasons, because he's a friend of Rodgers.  
  3. I suspect the other possible rationale, which would NOT necessarily be illogical, would be the value of average, the value of anti-awful.  A good kicker would obviously be preferable to an average kicker; and an average kicker at average price would be preferable to an average kicker at high price.  But what if the option to overpriced-average is a bad kicker?  

I think it might be a lot easier to cut Crosby and his salary *IF* the other kicker they brought to camp looked good and projected to be an average (or better) kicker.  

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12 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

JHC i'm not saying I can kick.  Never attempted a FG in my life and I'm sure I would suck at it.  I'm saying I could *attempt* 50 yard FGs just fine as long as you don't expect any to go through the upright.  Crosby's problem is he doesn't make em at a high rate, not that he doesn't attempt them.

He was pretty clutch against the Cowboys on 50 yarders.

You can do a little better and a whole lot worse than Crosby as your kicker.  Let's not sit here and pretend that there's anyone out there, right now, who can kick at his level.

Once that is established, I'll give you this....this would be a good year to move on from him and go with a younger kid.  I say that as a fan only.  I don't think GB contends for any title this year.  What I hope for is for them to be competitive and grow within the new system.  So, if we trot out a new kicker who shanks a few, I can live with that this year.  Because next year I think we are going to be gunning for it all.  And hopefully the new kid would be up to the task next year.

I say all of that as a realistic fan.  If I'm in the front office of GB, or on the coaching staff, no way on God's Green Earth do I move on from Crosby for a young kicker.  It more or less shows that you are not all that serious about winning in 2019.  And you just can't do that as a coach or front office person.

IMO, the time to move on from Crosby is when you find the right kid in the draft, or when a good free agent presents itself.  That isn't right now.  Could be this next off-season.

Edited by vegas492
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11 hours ago, Cakeshoppe said:

for what it's worth, PFR has expected points data for every play in their database. Crosby's average is -0.11 points per kick vs. expected. Opponents average +0.09 points per kick vs. average. I suspect that has at least as much to do with coaching decision-making as it does with kicking performance though.

One caveat on Crosby- he kicks outside in December in Lambeau Field.  It should be taken into consideration when his evaluation comes up.  Playoff time late in the year is a whole different story.  Plus, all the times MM had him attempt 50+ at the end of the half.

He should be our kicker until someone out does him in camp.  We should bring in competition every year though.

Sidebar-  a long long time ago I attended kickers camp in River Falls, WI two consecutive years.  Learned from Jan Stenerud, Fred Cox, Jim Bakken and Chester Marcol.  Was a straight on conventional kicker and won the dreaded '20 in a row' t-shirt both years for Extra points.  None of the four guys listed above even achieved that (amateur holders may have been responsible). A couple of the campers could easily outkick both Jan and Chester, but not when everyone was watching.  They would crumble like dust. My longest FG ever made was 42 yards.

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