Random Packer News & Notes

[Fl0nkerton]

34 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I knew you were sarcastic about the Gute coward part, but thought you were serious about wanting Schobert. 

Have to imagine he'd be too expensive for a lateral upgrade.

I do wonder who people have in mind to help mitigate the ILB depth. I fully expect to roll with what we have and hope Bolton/Burks/Summers can get healthy and hold it down.

[jleisher]

IMO, he is not a JAG.  As for market value, who knows what that will be.  I would do everything possible to resign him.

[jleisher]

What about bring in Zach Zenner RB?  Worth a look or not?

[Joe]

2 hours ago, Fl0nkerton said:

I hope neither of my cats get feline AIDS. It's the number one killer of cats...

 

31 minutes ago, Norm said:

Schobert is a double whammy with him going to Wisconsin on top of it. But honestly I didn't think people were too high on him?

People are very high on him because he's basically Blake Martinez, but he's a Wisconsin guy who's achieving with another team, so psychologically he looks appealing...

...he'd also be too expensive...next...

[Packerraymond]

57 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

This.  Not this as if I agree with this, but this is what @Norm and I mean. 

Schobert - 3 Years - 275/163 Comb/Total tackles - 6.5 sacks - 11 passes defended - 2 interceptions - 5 forced fumbles - 78.2 PFF
Martinez - 3 Years - 357/254 Comb/Total tackles - 7 sacks - 15 passes defended - 2 interceptions - 1 forced fumbles - 74.8 PFF

Schobert - 73.38 tall - 244 pounds - 31.5 arm - 9.75 hand - 4.76 40 - 33.5 vertical - 111 broad jump - 22 reps - 4.3 20 YS - 7.11 3 cone
Martinez - 73.63 tall - 237 pounds - 31.63 arms - 10.88 hand - 4.71 40 - 28.5 vert - 113 broad - 22 reps - 4.2 20 YS - 6.98 3 cone

So either you're obsessed with less than 4 points from PFF and five inches in a vertical leap and 4 more forced fumbles as some sort of metric for being otherworldly better, or you - like most people on this site - hate Martinez purely because he doesn't look fast. 

Schobert and Martinez are about as identical prospects at the position as you can get.  They are literally the same player, and yet people act like Schobert would be this massive upgrade. 

I just provided 16 metrics of production and measurable information.  Martinez is better in 10 of them and equal in 1 of them.  The only things Schobert has over Martinez is less than 4 points on PFF, 7 more pounds, a 5 inch higher vertical and 4 more forced fumbles. 

I'm not trying to rip you too badly here, but this is exactly what I can't stand about this place.  Name recognition is all that matters to some people without context.  Browns fans would probably think Martinez is a huge upgrade over Schobert.  Nobody knows because nobody cares.  The player with a better name or recognition is always better on the field to some people. 

I'm trying to find a single post last page that says Schobert is better than Martinez or even compares them. There are none, you ranted for nothing. 

If the Browns we're willing to accept Taylor and a 5th for Schobert, I'd accept in a heartbeat. You'd be foolish not to. You're improving your defense, your depth and your special teams for a guy who can be replaced by Jenkins. You can play 2 LBs in the NFL at the same time you know.

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

This.  Not this as if I agree with this, but this is what @Norm and I mean. 

Schobert - 3 Years - 275/163 Comb/Total tackles - 6.5 sacks - 11 passes defended - 2 interceptions - 5 forced fumbles - 78.2 PFF   
Martinez - 3 Years - 357/254 Comb/Total tackles - 7 sacks - 15 passes defended - 2 interceptions - 1 forced fumbles - 74.8 PFF

Schobert - 73.38 tall - 244 pounds - 31.5 arm - 9.75 hand - 4.76 40 - 33.5 vertical - 111 broad jump - 22 reps - 4.3 20 YS - 7.11 3 cone
Martinez - 73.63 tall - 237 pounds - 31.63 arms - 10.88 hand - 4.71 40 - 28.5 vert - 113 broad - 22 reps - 4.2 20 YS - 6.98 3 cone

So either you're obsessed with less than 4 points from PFF and five inches in a vertical leap and 4 more forced fumbles as some sort of metric for being otherworldly better, or you - like most people on this site - hate Martinez purely because he doesn't look fast. 

Schobert and Martinez are about as identical prospects at the position as you can get.  They are literally the same player, and yet people act like Schobert would be this massive upgrade. 

I just provided 16 metrics of production and measurable information.  Martinez is better in 10 of them and equal in 1 of them.  The only things Schobert has over Martinez is less than 4 points on PFF, 7 more pounds, a 5 inch higher vertical and 4 more forced fumbles. 

I'm not trying to rip you too badly here, but this is exactly what I can't stand about this place.  Name recognition is all that matters to some people without context.  Browns fans would probably think Martinez is a huge upgrade over Schobert.  Nobody knows because nobody cares.  The player with a better name or recognition is always better on the field to some people. 

Absolutely no one said or even came close to suggesting the bolded part. Not sure what the point is of all this. The discussion was about having Schobert AND Martinez for 2019. You yourself just acknowledged that Schobert is a fine player, either slightly below, on par, or slightly better than Martinez--let's call them "comparable." We are weak at ILB (outside of Martinez) and have depth at OG, making Taylor expendable (we did after all spend a 2nd round pick on OG who is ready to play). Hence the suggestion of a trade involving those players. 

At some point, I would like someone to answer this question however....Why the hell can't Martinez force any fumbles? 1 in 3 years for a guy who has started 41 regular season games and never leaves the field....hmm. 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by packfanfb

[Packerraymond]

Just now, packfanfb said:

Absolutely no one said or even came close to suggesting the bolded part. Not sure what the point is of all this. The discussion was about having Schobert AND Martinez for 2019. You yourself just acknowledged that Schobert is a fine player, either slightly below, on par, or slightly better than Martinez--let's call them "comparable." We are weak at ILB (outside of Martinez) and have depth at OG, making Taylor expendable (we did after all spend a 2nd round pick on OG who is ready to play). Hence the suggestion of a trade involving those players. 

At some point, I would like someone to answer this question however....Why the hell can't Martinez force any fumbles? 1 in 3 years for a guy who has started 41 regular season games and never leaves the field....hmm. 

 

He likes the him vs the board mentality he's got, but the only time that's really ever has been the case is when it comes to Aaron Rodgers.

Now he just fabricates this stuff to go on these rants and it's getting old. Nothing you said was bad at all. Martinez is definitely a great LB and I don't see anyone who's said anything different. If the Browns would accept (I think Scho has significantly more value than Taylor so I doubt it) it would be a great trade to improve the Packers roster.

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

He likes the him vs the board mentality he's got, but the only time that's really ever has been the case is when it comes to Aaron Rodgers.

Now he just fabricates this stuff to go on these rants and it's getting old. Nothing you said was bad at all. Martinez is definitely a great LB and I don't see anyone who's said anything different. If the Browns would accept (I think Scho has significantly more value than Taylor so I doubt it) it would be a great trade to improve the Packers roster.

Yea, I threw this in as well, and the only reason I would have a glimmer of hypothetical hope is because all Cleveland radio talks about around here is (A) how bad their RG position is currently and (B) how good they think Mack Wilson is. Given that Schobert is in the last year of his deal, maybe Cleveland would jump, IF they like Taylor. Either that or they're probably working on extension with Scho as we speak, lol. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

He likes the him vs the board mentality he's got, but the only time that's really ever has been the case is when it comes to Aaron Rodgers.

You just responded to someone who legitimately asked why Martinez hasn't forced more fumbles and are acting like there isn't a serious group of people who act like Martinez is JAG. 

Quote

Now he just fabricates this stuff to go on these rants and it's getting old.

I could literally say the same thing about you.  There is literally a got damn thread asking if we have the worst ILB corps in the league and you're acting like I'm fabricating this ****.  You act like I'm somehow schizophrenic over the things that are very real on this site. 

This same site where LITERALLY the majority did NOT want us to re-sign Bakhtiari.
This same site where LITERALLY the majority wrote off Adams completely, and at least a dozen people wanted us to cut him.
This same site where LITERALLY dozens of people wrote off MVS all offseason long.

If I didn't make this post and it was a PM, I would bet you literally the rights to me ever being able to watch The Thing again that, in a poll, the majority would say they do not want us to re-sign Martinez for market value. 

But I'm the one that somehow likes a board versus me mentality? 

 

[Joe]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

This same site where LITERALLY the majority did NOT want us to re-sign Bakhtiari.
This same site where LITERALLY the majority wrote off Adams completely, and at least a dozen people wanted us to cut him.
This same site where LITERALLY dozens of people wrote off MVS all offseason long.

If I didn't make this post and it was a PM, I would bet you literally the rights to me ever being able to watch The Thing again that, in a poll, the majority would say they do not want us to re-sign Martinez for market value. 

But I'm the one that somehow likes a board versus me mentality? 

 

Um...major flip flop at the end...

[MacReady]

Just now, packfanfb said:

At some point, I would like someone to answer this question however....Why the hell can't Martinez force any fumbles? 1 in 3 years for a guy who has started 41 regular season games and never leaves the field....hmm.

Here's the answer in the simplest form: Because he has not removed the ball from the ball carrier more times than 1. 

Now some context:

Bobby Wagner - 0 forced fumbles in his first three years.
Ray Lewis - 0 forced fumbles in his first 5 seasons.
Dont'a Hightower - 1 forced fumble in his first three years (2 in his career)
Luke Kuechly - 1 forced fumble in his first three years
Deion Jones - 2 forced fumbles in his first three years.

@Packerraymond, I LIKE the fricking me versus the board mentality are you kidding me? 

He just acted like it was an "aha, gotcha," question as to why Martinez hasn't forced more than one fumble in 41 starts and I'm the one that likes a board versus me mentality? 

This is the exact type of thing that goes on here with Martinez all the time and you act like I'm making it up. 

Get over yourself.  You've got a bigger ego and more self-righteousness than two of me and a hairless cat. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Outpost31

[MacReady]

Just now, Joe said:

Um...major flip flop at the end...

No, it's not a flip flop.  I don't like it.  It literally makes me angry.  He's acting like I like being the only one who sees common sense. 

There are like 8 people on this site who have common sense and can grasp context and reality of the NFL.  @incognito_man, @AlexGreen#20, @CWood21, @Norm and like four others who aren't around as much. 

The rest of this board is the type who wants to cut Davante Adams, who doesn't want to re-sign Martinez or Bakhtiari, who want to draft an ILB 12th overall, who want to draft receivers or tight ends or frickin guards in the first round.  Who act like it's a major blemish for a really good ILB to not have forced fumbles.  AJ Hawk had twice as many forced fumbles as Martinez, so we should probably bring him back.  Ray Lewis is trash.  Bobby Wagner is trash because he didn't force fumbles.  Not saying he said Martinez was trash because he doesn't force fumbles, but it was a legitimate question.  Clinton-Dix has 4 forced fumbles in his career for frick's sake. 

It gets old, man.  I don't revel in the me versus the board like Ray suggests I do.  I hate it.  I hate that I have to be as vocal as I am over the obsession with flashy numbers and highlight reel plays out of the ILB position.  Kiko Alonso has 10 interceptions and 7 forced fumbles in his career and he has played on three teams, about to be four teams because he sucks.  He is literally the Lavar Arrington of his time doing whatever the hell he feels like doing and getting forced fumbles and interceptions by being nowhere near where he's supposed to be, but he's fast, and fans love that.  Meanwhile we've got Blake Martinez who is as assignment sure and smart as you can possibly get. 

Same thing with Zack Brown.  He just signed a 1 year deal with the Eagles.  That's his fourth team.  He will have a fifth team by next year.  Nobody sees something amiss there. 

And we're talking about the ILB position.  LITERALLY the most dependent position on defense.  An ILB is literally worthless in run coverage without a good DL.  An ILB is literally worthless without good corners/safeties.  Unless you think Deion Jones, all 6-1 of him, is covering Travis Kelce one on one effectively. 

They see highlights of Deion Jones being super fast and quick to stop a dumpoff pass to the flat and act like that's Earth Shattering and all-important when that's literally no better than an ILB stopping a run for no gain. 

The one benefit to players like Jones is that you don't have to sub a player for obvious passing downs.  Nothing Jones does in coverage Campbell couldn't do for us. 

So yeah, I get frustrated.  I do feel like the majority of this board is ILB-obsessed.  Do I like it?  Nope, I hate it.  When I get accused of liking it, that gets me. 

[packfanfb]

22 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Here's the answer in the simplest form: Because he has not removed the ball from the ball carrier more times than 1. 

Now some context:

Bobby Wagner - 0 forced fumbles in his first three years.
Ray Lewis - 0 forced fumbles in his first 5 seasons.
Dont'a Hightower - 1 forced fumble in his first three years (2 in his career)
Luke Kuechly - 1 forced fumble in his first three years
Deion Jones - 2 forced fumbles in his first three years.

@Packerraymond, I've got a fricking me versus the board mentality are you kidding me? 

He just acted like it was an "aha, gotcha," question as to why Martinez hasn't forced more than one fumble in 41 starts and I'm the one that likes a board versus me mentality? 

This is the exact type of thing that goes on here with Martinez all the time and you act like I'm making it up. 

Get over yourself.  You've got a bigger ego and more self-righteousness than two of me and a hairless cat. 

"Ah, gotcha?" I pointed out a fact about Martinez after you compared him to Schobert, who's forced 5 fumbles in 33 starts in 3 years. That's it. Maybe you don't care how many fumbles Martinez causes and don't consider that factor in your overall evaluation of him. I do, in addition to the myriad of other factors to that go into being a play-making ILB, and would when it comes time to pay him after this year. 

If we are talking about "agendas" regarding Martinez then let's just put it all out there. I believe, and have always said, that Martinez is a solid and dependable ILB who racks up a lot tackles. He improved as a blitzer this past year as well. I also believe he's not much of a play-maker and certainly is not a game-changing player. As such, I wouldn't overpay him in FA like we are seeing for guys like Mosley and Jaylon Smith. In fact, I wouldn't pay him close to that amount of money. Would you?  I don't view him as a Wagner, Lewis, Kuechly-type player, and I believe even you said that as well. Hence, I have no "agenda" to disparage or knock Martinez down. Do you have one to build him up into something he's not?  

Edited August 28, 2019 by packfanfb

[packfanfb]

12 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

There are like 8 people on this site who have common sense and can grasp context and reality of the NFL.  @incognito_man, @AlexGreen#20, @CWood21, @Norm and like four others who aren't around as much. 

Why post then? Maybe you should only follow the posters who have common sense and can grasp the context of the NFL and leave the rest of us no-nothings to have our meaningless and pointless discussions about things we clearly do not know anything about. 

Personally, I enjoy our banter back and forth and you and I have argued about other things in the past, as is the case with all the poster you named above. It's an internet forum. Everything's good here on my end. I look forward to our next disagreement, and I'll end this one here. 

[Packerraymond]

33 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Here's the answer in the simplest form: Because he has not removed the ball from the ball carrier more times than 1. 

Now some context:

Bobby Wagner - 0 forced fumbles in his first three years.
Ray Lewis - 0 forced fumbles in his first 5 seasons.
Dont'a Hightower - 1 forced fumble in his first three years (2 in his career)
Luke Kuechly - 1 forced fumble in his first three years
Deion Jones - 2 forced fumbles in his first three years.

@Packerraymond, I LIKE the fricking me versus the board mentality are you kidding me? 

He just acted like it was an "aha, gotcha," question as to why Martinez hasn't forced more than one fumble in 41 starts and I'm the one that likes a board versus me mentality? 

This is the exact type of thing that goes on here with Martinez all the time and you act like I'm making it up. 

Get over yourself.  You've got a bigger ego and more self-righteousness than two of me and a hairless cat. 

I'm struggling to grasp how Blake not forcing fumbles means @packfanfb thinks he's not a good player? Blake's lack of turnover play are a seriously legit reason to call him a good LB and not an elite one.

The "worst ILB" thread even states the existence of Martinez in it and is more about depth.

Literally dozens of us have praised MVS this off-season, literally dozens of us didn't want to cut Adams and literally dozens of us wanted to re-sign Bahk. I was a big advocate of all 3, you just don't remember because I don't bring it up every chance I get to make it seem like I'm the only one. There are hundreds of Packers fans that come and go on this site. There will always be dozens that disagree with even some of the most obvious things to those of us who get football. I used to be a big fan of debating you, but not lately, the over dramatization of everything gets old.