Jump to content
Leader

Random Packer News & Notes

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Honestly, I've cooled off on Schneider a TON.  His drafts in recent years have been awful, and he's traded away draft capital for quick fixes.

I'd be frustrated as hell with how Pete uses the talent he gives them.  Golden Tate and Jermaine Kearse have both gone on to be much improved versions of themselves outside of Seattle. 

Graham is criminally mis-used until this season.

Goes both ways with the carp he's giving them at OL though.  Letting Okung walk was a criminal offense.

Edited by skibrett15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Pugger said:

Me too.  I'm still hoping  gets Brian Gutekunst the job.

Honestly, I'm not sure there's anything that differentiates Wolf from Gut tbh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We drafted Trevor Davis because he offered something our current WRs had.  There's more to playing WR than being able to run fast in a straight line.

Understood and I've been pulling for Davis since coming on board. STs (while challenging at times.....) has been a positive - WR is still a work in progress and I'm hopeful year 3 shows improvement - still - the GBPs have been lacking / seeking a true FAST WR threat for some time and they dont have to runs in straight lines far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Leader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, skibrett15 said:

I'd be frustrated as hell with how Pete uses the talent he gives them.  Golden Tate and Jermaine Kearse have both gone on to be much improved versions of themselves outside of Seattle. 

Graham is criminally mis-used until this season.

Goes both ways with the carp he's giving them at OL though.

Schneider's drafts from 2010-2012 are as good as anyone's.  Kinda reminds me of Green Bay's drafts from 2005-2008.  Only, his drafts have fallen off even worse.  Since 2013, the only "core" player they have drafted is Justin Britt (after failing at tackle IIRC) and Frank Clark.  It's bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

Honestly, I'm not sure there's anything that differentiates Wolf from Gut tbh.

Brian actually played in college and is the director of college scouting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

Schneider's drafts from 2010-2012 are as good as anyone's.  Kinda reminds me of Green Bay's drafts from 2005-2008.  Only, his drafts have fallen off even worse.  Since 2013, the only "core" player they have drafted is Justin Britt (after failing at tackle IIRC) and Frank Clark.  It's bad.

Tyler Lockett is a 1000 yard receiver in GB, but that was a really bad move on his part given what they gave up for that.  Definitely a strike against them.

Shaq Griffin looked good as a rookie DB in that scheme.  Jarran Reed plays the run well and keeps wagner very clean.  Alex Collins was a good pick, same for Spencer Ware, but they both got away due to coaching staff preference.

Luke Willson was a fine pick.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, skibrett15 said:

Tyler Lockett is a 1000 yard receiver in GB, but that was a really bad move on his part given what they gave up for that.  Definitely a strike against them.

Shaq Griffin looked good as a rookie DB in that scheme.  Jarran Reed plays the run well and keeps wagner very clean.  Alex Collins was a good pick, same for Spencer Ware, but they both got away due to coaching staff preference.

Luke Willson was a fine pick.

Honestly, wasn't really going to use this most recent draft for or against him.  Still too many variables there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We drafted Trevor Davis because he offered something our current WRs had.  There's more to playing WR than being able to run fast in a straight line.

Would be nice to have some guys with both speed AND skill!  Many teams have guys with both.  :) Packers don't.  Contributes to how hard it is to create explosive, longer players; to stretch the field and free the zones; to provide easier passes for Aaron; and to have guys get open more quickly without depending on long, long scrambles to find an open target.   (Just one play, but maybe if somebody fast and quick and skillful got open fast, Aaron would have just gunned in a completion, and Aaron would never have been scrambling around giving Barr time to break his collarbone.) 

Often it seems so much easier for opponents to complete first-down passes, because our secondary plays so far off and HaHa is playing so far behind the first-down line.  Packer receivers get played much tighter.  Opposing defense probably have far less reason to give Packer receivers such large cushions.    

Just interesting to see that play-speed data.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not saying it's true of everyone but in general as a fan base we know so little about the qualifications of these internal candidates and yet most of us have passionately staked our wagons to somebody as the obvious future savior when the other candidates will undoubtedly ruin us. In a way it's a Rorschach Test for fans: pick the couple surface differentiating features we know about each candidate and pump up the importance of that thing based on what you value. Do you want the experienced steady hand who represents a continuation of the past, a young phenom, or someone in between? Do you want a self-made man or someone who has the job in his veins? Do you want the jack of all trades who'd have to listen to his specialists, or the specialist who'd have to learn all the other facets on the job?

Yeah I know this is all part of being a fan but at least with players you have more to go off of in terms of job performance (game film) so you can at least pretend to have an informed opinion about who the best choice is- but with internal management they are usually so tight lipped about who is responsible for which moves that it's so much more speculative trying to predict which of these candidates will end up being better for a job they've never held. Very much a 'Dunning-Kruger Effect'.

I don't feel like I can possibly have a good opinion on who the best choice is right now, so I'm just anxiously hoping for the best and I guess we won't know for 2-3 years minimum if the choice was promising or not (unless we pick The Worst Ever or someone that just makes obvious blunders).

This all just seems to come down to whether you trust Murphy and McCarthy and the rest to make the best decision. I'm not sure that's an altogether comforting thought but I do think they are in a much better position than I am to make this decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, craig said:

Would be nice to have some guys with both speed AND skill!  Many teams have guys with both.  :) Packers don't.  Contributes to how hard it is to create explosive, longer players; to stretch the field and free the zones; to provide easier passes for Aaron; and to have guys get open more quickly without depending on long, long scrambles to find an open target.   (Just one play, but maybe if somebody fast and quick and skillful got open fast, Aaron would have just gunned in a completion, and Aaron would never have been scrambling around giving Barr time to break his collarbone.) 

Often it seems so much easier for opponents to complete first-down passes, because our secondary plays so far off and HaHa is playing so far behind the first-down line.  Packer receivers get played much tighter.  Opposing defense probably have far less reason to give Packer receivers such large cushions.    

Just interesting to see that play-speed data.  

Unfortunately, players with both speed AND skill generally tend to go early and often.  Those "complete" receivers that everyone is clamoring for are generally the types of players that the Packers aren't in play for.  Instead, they're looking more in the "discount department" for the WR.  I'd absolutely take a WR with strong route running skills and reliable hands over a receiver who runs really fast.  We've had plenty of success with those types.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Acrid Josher said:

Not saying it's true of everyone but in general as a fan base we know so little about the qualifications of these internal candidates and yet most of us have passionately staked our wagons to somebody as the obvious future savior when the other candidates will undoubtedly ruin us. In a way it's a Rorschach Test for fans: pick the couple surface differentiating features we know about each candidate and pump up the importance of that thing based on what you value. Do you want the experienced steady hand who represents a continuation of the past, a young phenom, or someone in between? Do you want a self-made man or someone who has the job in his veins? Do you want the jack of all trades who'd have to listen to his specialists, or the specialist who'd have to learn all the other facets on the job?

Yeah I know this is all part of being a fan but at least with players you have more to go off of in terms of job performance (game film) so you can at least pretend to have an informed opinion about who the best choice is- but with internal management they are usually so tight lipped about who is responsible for which moves that it's so much more speculative trying to predict which of these candidates will end up being better for a job they've never held. Very much a 'Dunning-Kruger Effect'.

I don't feel like I can possibly have a good opinion on who the best choice is right now, so I'm just anxiously hoping for the best and I guess we won't know for 2-3 years minimum if the choice was promising or not (unless we pick The Worst Ever or someone that just makes obvious blunders).

This all just seems to come down to whether you trust Murphy and McCarthy and the rest to make the best decision. I'm not sure that's an altogether comforting thought but I do think they are in a much better position than I am to make this decision.

Very true. The best we can hope for is that if the Packers go internally for a GM they have skip-loads of information on all the candidates over many years. if they cannot make a good choice with all that info, the Packers are headed in a downward spiral with the ailerons stuck and the engine sputtering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's not a good looking WR speed stat, although I wonder how useful of a metric it is. Rams are at the top but so are the Jags and Browns. I'd guess this is one of those stats where you're not worried if you're in the middle, but if you're far away from the rest of the pack it might be a problem (which is where the Packers are). I thought Cobb still had some speed and Adams doesn't look slow. Is Jordy that much slower now? Is everyone just slower than I think because I watch this team more than others? Does playing in the cold have some impact on this metric? Really not sure what to think about this except perhaps more support for the consensus idea that another WR option would be nice.

I'm not following the draft/CFB this year but assuming the boards allow it this could be a perfect time for the classic TT 2nd round WR (please after a first round pass rusher).

Edited by Acrid Josher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Unfortunately, players with both speed AND skill generally tend to go early and often.  Those "complete" receivers that everyone is clamoring for are generally the types of players that the Packers aren't in play for.  Instead, they're looking more in the "discount department" for the WR.  I'd absolutely take a WR with strong route running skills and reliable hands over a receiver who runs really fast.  We've had plenty of success with those types.

Gimme one guy who is fast enough that he doesn't need to run perfect routes to get open, and let's teach him how to improve in that area.

Jordy Nelson was plenty fast, so was jennings.  Nobody we've drafted since has that kind of upside, Adams included.

 

You almost never want to be at the total extreme of anything as far as input metrics.  Just more evidence that Jordy and Cobb are washed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, skibrett15 said:

Gimme one guy who is fast enough that he doesn't need to run perfect routes to get open, and let's teach him how to improve in that area.

Jordy Nelson was plenty fast, so was jennings.  Nobody we've drafted since has that kind of upside, Adams included.

This was the idea with Janis and Davis, no? We either suck at developing these guys, or it's harder than it seems, or Rodgers or MM or somebody with power doesn't like guys that take extra hand-holding to become a polished WR.

Not saying I disagree with that idea but I don't think it's like we've ignored it from a player-acquisition standpoint. There seems to be some resistance or failure from within.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Acrid Josher said:

This was the idea with Janis and Davis, no? We either suck at developing these guys, or it's harder than it seems, or Rodgers or MM or somebody with power doesn't like guys that take extra hand-holding to become a polished WR.

Not saying I disagree with that idea but I don't think it's like we've ignored it from a player-acquisition standpoint. There seems to be some resistance or failure from within.

Janis and Davis had zero college pedigree.  Plenty of college receivers who are very productive who catch the ball, make contested catches, and aren't route technicians.  2nd/3rd round types.

Or just go sign Martavis Bryant and cut Jordy and Cobb.  Bryant doesn't seem like he gets the playbook, but he can run straight and catch, and runs away from you with the ball in his hands.

If GB is trying to field a top 5 offense with that perimeter group as it stands now, it needs either a 2016 ATL running game or Travis Kelce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×