Random Packer News & Notes

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Being GM for this fanbase must blow. Expectation is 2 of your 4th-6th round guys are competent starters. 

And even that "expectation" is more often not achieved versus fulfilled depending on your definition of "competent." It is very hard to find good players on day 3 of the draft especially at certain positions, WR being one. You are literally looking to win the lottery. These aren't OL we're talking about. 

Also, I'm tired of hearing, "but this class is better than years past." First, that's just not true. Second, it's nonsense. Guys like Moore, MVS and ESB are in every draft but that body type was never TT's go to. All you've seen is simply a change in philosophy under Gute regarding the type of WR he wants to draft. That means absolutely nothing in determining whether these guys are going to be any good.  

[Scoremore]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Being GM for this fanbase must blow. Expectation is 2 of your 4th-6th round guys are competent starters. 

Competent starters?  Where did I say that?  2 out of 3 will be contributors.  Big difference.  We might pluck one starter out of the three and that would be incredible.  Considering how weak at WR we are I don't think that is far fetched at all.  Moore has the best shot going into the season.  We need a flanker.  Gute took 3 shots personally barring injury I think all 3 make the the 53.   Totally disagree that these guys compare to Dupre, Janis, or Abbs.  I mean come on AG what do you consider a hit for 4-6th round picks?   Adams is the only competent starter we have on the team right now.  Cobb I don't know his availability sucks and he hasn't done much since signing that massive contract.  In 3 years we can judge how these guys panned out.  Think 2 out of the 3 will stick and contribute over multiple years.

[pacman5252]

Honestly, I'm ready to give up on Cobb after this year (unless he signs for something minimal). The guy is too small to do anything downfield.

[Scoremore]

Also add I like EQ's potential the most of the 3 longer term.  The kid is very smart, extremely athletic,  and has big strong hands.  Had we taken him in the 2nd round you would all be singing a different tune.  We know why he dropped.  His coaches at Notre Dame threw him under the bus.  Production sucked last year because of a change in offensive philosophy.  Also their QB flat out sucked.  This kid intrigues me.  He has everything you look for in a WR prospect.  His chances of becoming a stud are a lot higher than a 6th rounder.  I give him a 50/50 shot. 

Remember when we drafted Bak you know a 4th rounder that turned into one of the best LT's in the league.  Pick made a lot of sense.  Under the radar on a bad team.  But had all of the qualities you look for.  Yes it can happen.  No point debating it.  We all have our opinions which right now don't mean jack.  I am  high on this group and I don't give a crap in what round they were drafted.  Again as with every rookie class it takes a few years to evaluate them.  This is especially true at the WR position.  Usually takes a few years for these guys to come on.

We really should have addressed this position last year.  We didn't.  Needed to find someone to replace Jordy.  Now we are up against it so unless we sign a vet these guys are going to get more playing time than they otherwise would.  If you guys want to bash this group give me a fundamental reason why you don't like the player other than the round they were drafted.

[TheGreatZepp]

I would never say Cobb is too small (isn’t he the same size as Antonio Brown) the excitement around him as just died down. When he was drafted the Packers hadn’t made many investments in flexible chess pieces that could be lined up all over and he was the first in some time. Injuries have done a number, how could they not on a player whose skill set depends on movement? When it is said and done I think the injuries have sapped him of what made him special.

Edited June 26, 2018 by TheGreatZepp

[SSG]

11 minutes ago, DavidatMIZZOU said:

I think that the three WRs drafted this year are a ton better than Yancey and Dupre.  More upside and equal or better college production.  Not only did neither of the two make the team, they were surpassed by Geronimo Allison and Michael Clark, and the team played Trevor Davis and Jeff Janis over both of them as well.

Time will tell.  I think the only one of the 3 that stands out athletically when compared too last year's rookie WRs is MVS and he's as raw of a WR as this last year's draft had too offer.  Fans are really short selling Yancey and Dupre athletically when reality is, if they get the same treatment as fans are giving Moore (looking past the the combine 40... both had a faster pro day 40 than Moore), their no worse off athletically.  All of them are big, tall, fast WRs that are going to have an uphill battle to become quality NFL starters.  Very possible but highly unlikely IMO.  

[Scoremore]

2 minutes ago, SSG said:

Time will tell.  I think the only one of the 3 that stands out athletically when compared too last year's rookie WRs is MVS and he's as raw of a WR as this last year's draft had too offer.  Fans are really short selling Yancey and Dupre athletically when reality is, if they get the same treatment as fans are giving Moore (looking past the the combine 40... both had a faster pro day 40 than Moore), their no worse off athletically.  All of them are big, tall, fast WRs that are going to have an uphill battle to become quality NFL starters.  Very possible but highly unlikely IMO.  

Dupre was stiff.  Fast but stiff. Not sure what he had upstairs either.  Yancey I am still one of the guys who hasn't given up on him.  Reminds me of James Jones.It won't shock me if he sneaks on the 53.  He'll have to beat out Allison.  Moore has some shake to his game.  He's a lot more polished coming out than either of those guys.  He'll be able to separate.  Yes EVS is raw.  Fast as hell much like Dupre.  Kid has a great attitude and think he'll be able to take over for Janis as a gunner.  Of the 3 think he'll take the longest to develop.  His ticket will be special teams.  Of the 3 picks view him as least likely to develop into a quality WR.  But who really knows?  

We have a giant hole at WR.  Because of this one of the rooks will emerge if nothing else but necessity.  They will be given opportunities they ordinarily wouldn't get.  I am excited to see these guys hit the field.  We busted out over and over on late round WR so I get the skepticism but really feel this group is different.  My guess is we will see Moore opposite of Adams with Cobb in the slot this year.  He has to be the early favorite just because he's the most NFL ready.  In time think EQ has the most upside of the 3. He has the qualities to be dominant.  He's not your ordinary late round WR.  He reminds me a bit of Javon Walker in the way he moves.  He's headier though.  Hopefully Aaron will take a shine to him.

[TheGreatZepp]

One thing I do consider when looking at the performance of Packers wide  receivers, for the last two decades, they have had all pros throwing them the ball. No receiver has left the organization and outdid their packer performance. What I am getting at is often quarterback play has been as much of a factor in receiver production as the receiver. If the Packers were going into the season with Hundley at quarterback, would anyone be this optimistic about the late round picks? Would acquiring a veteran receiver take over as the biggest need?

[Scoremore]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatZepp said:

One thing I do consider when looking at the performance of Packers wide  receivers, for the last two decades, they have had all pros throwing them the ball. No receiver has left the organization and outdid their packer performance. What I am getting at is often quarterback play has been as much of a factor in receiver production as the receiver. If the Packers were going into the season with Hundley at quarterback, would anyone be this optimistic about the late round picks? Would acquiring a veteran receiver take over as the biggest need?

Nope.  Not nearly as optimistic.  Aaron makes all receivers better.  Honestly would still prefer a vet to the rooks but it is what it is.  Steep learning curve at WR.  Always the case.  Seldom does a rookie WR have an big impact.  2-3 years generally unless you get a guy like Moss or Jones.  Generational type talents.  We have Adams and that's about it.  Hopefully Cobb will do something this year.  Then a bunch on rooks.  This is the worst WR group coming into the season I can ever remember.  Rooks have promise yes but man it's a tough position to put Aaron into.  A lot of young unproven talent.  If Adams goes down we are screwed. I think we'll see Aaron bitching a little more than usual trying to get these new WR's up to speed.

 

[eyecatcher]

2 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Also add I like EQ's potential the most of the 3 longer term.  The kid is very smart, extremely athletic,  and has big strong hands. 

Per a couple of ESB's draft profiles his weaknesses include:

• Hand strength is below average
• Has catches that turn into drops due to lack of hand strength through contact
• Inconsistent hands

To be fair St. Brown looked like a late first early second rounder when he had a decent arm in Kizer throwing to him.   Last year Wimbush was awful and he did nothing to help St. Brown.  Now he has AR throwing him the ball who knows.  I like his upside also but like you and others have said, time will tell.  

Edited June 26, 2018 by eyecatcher

[SSG]

2 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Dupre was stiff.  Fast but stiff. Not sure what he had upstairs either.  Yancey I am still one of the guys who hasn't given up on him.  Reminds me of James Jones.It won't shock me if he sneaks on the 53.  He'll have to beat out Allison.  Moore has some shake to his game.  He's a lot more polished coming out than either of those guys.  He'll be able to separate.  Yes EVS is raw.  Fast as hell much like Dupre.  Kid has a great attitude and think he'll be able to take over for Janis as a gunner.  Of the 3 think he'll take the longest to develop.  His ticket will be special teams.  Of the 3 picks view him as least likely to develop into a quality WR.  But who really knows?  

We have a giant hole at WR.  Because of this one of the rooks will emerge if nothing else but necessity.  They will be given opportunities they ordinarily wouldn't get.  I am excited to see these guys hit the field.  We busted out over and over on late round WR so I get the skepticism but really feel this group is different.  My guess is we will see Moore opposite of Adams with Cobb in the slot this year.  He has to be the early favorite just because he's the most NFL ready.  In time think EQ has the most upside of the 3. He has the qualities to be dominant.  He's not your ordinary late round WR.  He reminds me a bit of Javon Walker in the way he moves.  He's headier though.  Hopefully Aaron will take a shine to him.

What makes you believe that Moore is any more NFL ready than Dupre, Yancey or ESB?  He played in a rudimentary offense that kept him on the same side of the field.  He played in the same spot for the entire of his college career.  On top of that, he struggled terribly going over the middle and did the vast majority of his damage on 2 routes.  IMO, Moore is every bit the project that MVS is.  He's got no idea what a NFL route tree is and IMO is going to as fast of a learner as there is in the NFL at his position if he's going to beat out Allison.

I'm going to need to see ESB play with some toughness before I get any faith in him.  I don't think he showed an ounce of grit last year.  If he quits on routes because the CB gets physical with AR12 (like he did last year at ND), his career isn't going to last long.  

[Kiwibrown]

St Brown is an interesting prospect, is there any nes on him?

[Scoremore]

Tall and lanky might have trouble beating the press.  That is my biggest concern with EQ.  Maybe Adams can teach him how to beat it.  Adams is deadly off the line something EQ is going will have to learn.  

[Packerraymond]

On 6/26/2018 at 1:45 PM, SSG said:

What makes you believe that Moore is any more NFL ready than Dupre, Yancey or ESB?  He played in a rudimentary offense that kept him on the same side of the field.  He played in the same spot for the entire of his college career.  On top of that, he struggled terribly going over the middle and did the vast majority of his damage on 2 routes.  IMO, Moore is every bit the project that MVS is.  He's got no idea what a NFL route tree is and IMO is going to as fast of a learner as there is in the NFL at his position if he's going to beat out Allison.

I'm going to need to see ESB play with some toughness before I get any faith in him.  I don't think he showed an ounce of grit last year.  If he quits on routes because the CB gets physical with AR12 (like he did last year at ND), his career isn't going to last long.  

Learning a route tree isn't difficult, it's no different than coverages for a DB. The nuances from one carry over to the others. You have a stem, the route itself and the TOR (top of route) or break, routes that don't have a break it's all about stacking the DB on your back hip or if you have the speed behind on your back. 

If you have the speed to win go's, you won't have any issues on a post or corner and if you can win at the LOS and explode out of a break a slant isn't much different than an in/out/stick/comeback/COP/Poker. It's just about landmark memorization and remembering am I on/off the LOS. 

Moore ran good routes at Mizzou, tree was limited but he won with fundamentals not just blow by speed, I'm not worried about him. He's pro ready.

[AlexGreen#20]

52 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Learning a route tree isn't difficult, it's no different than coverages for a DB. The nuances from one carry over to the others. You have a stem, the route itself and the TOR (top of route) or break, routes that don't have a break it's all about stacking the DB on your back hip or if you have the speed behind on your back. 

If you have the speed to win go's, you won't have any issues on a post or corner and if you can win at the LOS and explode out of a break a slant isn't much different than an in/out/stick/comeback/COP/Poker. It's just about landmark memorization and remembering am I on/off the LOS. 

Moore ran good routes at Mizzou, tree was limited but he won with fundamentals not just blow by speed, I'm not worried about him. He's pro ready.

I think there's some middle ground between these two points.

The concepts do carry over from route to route, but the repetition is still extremely important because things only become second nature and by extension performed at NFL speed through reps. 

I think you're also underplaying the mental aspect of the WR position. Moore's probably never been forced to make post snap reads. Maybe he worked some back shoulder concepts, but that's likely it. Reading and reacting to the chess pieces moving around the board is a big part of NFL ball. That's not easy to pick up in an offseason.

He's stepping in here as the #4 guy in all likelihood, though it sounds like Valdez-Scantling might actually hold that spot at the moment. He's gonna need to fight for those reps.