Packerraymond Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 4 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: 2007. Brandon Jackson started the first three games in spite of DeShawn Wynn rushing for 50 yards on 5 carries in his second game. Jackson gets hurt. Wynn starts the next 4 games, gets put on IR. Ryan Grant gets his first start in week 9, taking two running backs to get hurt. Ruvell Martin has 21, then 16 receptions for 17 yards and 15 yards per catch with 5 touchdowns in his first 2 seasons with Favre. Rodgers takes over and then nothing. 2008. DeShawn Wynn has 1 catch and one rush until the final game of the season. Final game of the season, he has 7 rushes for 106 yards and a TD. 2009. Wynn gets 6 total carries and then nothing the rest of his career. Finley's rookie year. Gets the start in week 1, 11.2 yards on 5 catches. Doesn't even start his second game and has 6 catches for 60+ yards and a TD. Starts his third game and gets 0 catches. Averages 5.3, 25 and 14 yards per catch over the next three games, then is a healthy scratch for the next two games, then, in spite of not being placed on IR, he doesn't make another appearance the rest of the season. His second year, he has 5 catches for 62 yards in two games. Not even a target in his third game, doesn't start his fourth game, still gets 6 catches for 128 yards and a TD. After a 6 catch, 128 yard and 1 TD season, he has 6 total catches over the next five games. When he's actually put back in, what happens? He leads the team in targets after he has a 7 catch game. Then he literally has a record-setting playoff performance with 159 yards. James Starks. Rookie year, he isn't even ACTIVE until week 11. In week 13, he has 18 carries for 4.1 yards per carry. He gets 6 total carries in week 14, goes two games without playing a single play, and then gets only 5 carries in a MUST WIN GAME TO GET TO THE PLAYOFFS. Brandon Jackson had 19 carries for 2.7 yards in that game. Starks averaged 4 yards per carry in that game. Jackson got 19 carries, Starks got 4. Starks doesn't start the first three weeks of 2011, but he still manages to rush for 4.8 yards and 9.4 yards per carry in the first two games. Gets a start in week 4, rushes for 4.8 yards per carry. Oh, Grant is healthy again. He gets the next SIX STARTS even though he averages 2.6, 2.8, 3.2, 4.0, .8, 4.0 yards per carry. Starks gets another start, rushes for 4.8 yards per carry. Jeremy Ross gets 6 punt returns for 12.5 yards per return. 3 kickoff returns for 28.7 yards per return. We don't even retain him or give him more opportunities. Ross goes on to finish 18th ALL TIME in punt return average. 90th ALL TIME in kick return average. Jarrett Boykin has 49 receptions for an average of 13.9 yards per reception with Flynn/Tolzien throwing to him the majority of the season. Three total catches the next season. This is the one that first caught my attention to it. If a player shows that he can perform over a full season, why in the hell aren't they given more opportunities? That's just up to 2014, and only offense. I'd have more players if I went up to the current year and if I included defensive players. Why are Goodson/Hawkins constantly getting on the field with injuries instead of talented/raw players? The only reason Shields EVER got on the field is because the Packers were afraid of the speed of the Eagles receivers. It is my opinion that McCarthy is stubborn and would rather have players do things the way they're designed to be done than create their own plays. Aaron Jones, as others have said, creates his own yardage. Jamaal Williams and Ty Montgomery do a great job at running exactly where the play is designed to go even if the play runs directly into the teeth of a linebacker. This list is just of players that I can remember having good plays while going through our rosters over the years. I'm sure there are more, and I'm absolutely positive there are defensive players who played better than the players who actually started. Gilbert is one who comes to mind over Fackrell. Fackrell does a fantastic job of doing exactly what he's supposed to in theory even if he can't disengage from a block or avoid getting manhandled to save his life. A lot of people like to attribute that to draft status, but I don't think it's that. I think McCarthy prefers players doing exactly what they're supposed to do instead of creating things for themselves. There are a LOT of connections that could be made to this theory. Our interceptions COMPLETELY drying up since Charles Woodson left is just another connection. Is it common for running backs (Starks, Wynn, Jones, and probably a bunch others) to have huge plays only to ride the bench and not get any opportunities? It's happened a lot in Green Bay. As far as the receivers, I'd put equal blame on Rodgers because Rodgers is just as stubborn. When it comes to RB though... Think there's more to it than you're willing to give me credit for. None of these guys outside of Finley proved to be even NFL caliber outside of Green Bay? So I guess this is a problem for every other coach in the league too? I'm going to go out on a limb and say these guys didn't play because they weren't good football players. Jones is a good football player, therefore I have absolutely zero doubts he'll get his this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Ross didn't have a good NFL career? Grant didn't? Starks didn't? Jordy Nelson spent three years before he actually was given consistent opportunities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 33 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Ross didn't have a good NFL career? Grant didn't? Starks didn't? Jordy Nelson spent three years before he actually was given consistent opportunities... No Ross didn't have a good career, he's a kick returner. Starks got plenty of carries here, he was a good backup RB. That's what he was, you saying you wanted less prime Lacy's and more Starks? If anything Starks got too many carries IMO. We ran the crap out of Grant for 3 years and then he was done, I don't get your point at all. Guy was a UDFA who was traded for on cutdown day, you expect him to just be penciled in the lineup?? I think you're confusing player development with some weird grudge Mac holds on players. You mad it took 3 years for Rodgers to start too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 ... You said yourself that Jones was not good at pass protection. When we desperately needed a RUNNING GAME to help Hundley, we went Montgomery/Williams when they were healthy. You have admitted that McCarthy does what I'm saying he does. Rodgers/McCarthy do the same thing with receivers/tight ends. I believe you have to give talented players playing time for their game IQ to improve, you say develop them. Would you say Fack belongs on the field over Gilbert? I wouldn't. Sometimes you live with mistakes due to a player having talent. McCarthy doesn't seem to do that, and I wish he would. I'm not imagining this. Everybody who watched our running game last year wanted Jones. We didn't run Jones because Jones couldn't pass block. What sense does that make when Brett couldn't even pass anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 52 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: ... You said yourself that Jones was not good at pass protection. When we desperately needed a RUNNING GAME to help Hundley, we went Montgomery/Williams when they were healthy. You have admitted that McCarthy does what I'm saying he does. Rodgers/McCarthy do the same thing with receivers/tight ends. I believe you have to give talented players playing time for their game IQ to improve, you say develop them. Would you say Fack belongs on the field over Gilbert? I wouldn't. Sometimes you live with mistakes due to a player having talent. McCarthy doesn't seem to do that, and I wish he would. I'm not imagining this. Everybody who watched our running game last year wanted Jones. We didn't run Jones because Jones couldn't pass block. What sense does that make when Brett couldn't even pass anyway? I've said probably a dozen times Jones wasn't healthy for the Bucs game and Williams was also in the midst of a 100+ 5.0+ game in Tampa. Versus the Browns they were a top rated run defense and a weak pass defense. We passed 46 times and Jones/Williams rushed under 20 times combined. Williams was healthy for Chi and Dallas and got 5 combined carries while Jones got almost 20 a game. You don't have evidence for this other than those 2 games where there was a total logical explanation as to why he didn't play. Also, you don't learn by making mistakes pass blocking for Rodgers. You want him to change the way he plays, the way that makes him the best in the game because it exposes him to risk. It's OK to play a RB who couldn't pass pro because we need him to learn on the job though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: Ross didn't have a good NFL career? Grant didn't? Starks didn't? Jordy Nelson spent three years before he actually was given consistent opportunities... The Packers traded for Grant 8 days before the first game, yet he got his opportunity in the seventh game. It took him that long to get up to speed on pass protection and audibles and all the things that make the offense run. He had some package plays before that, but I would argue the staff did a great job getting him ready that fast. Starks started the season on PUP as I recall, so is a rookie without camp and the first 6 weeks of practice. Again, to get him ready for the playoffs was an achievement. Jordy was stuck behind Jennings and Driver, both 1000+ yard receivers for his first two years, competing with James Jones who had 660 yds as a rookie, for reps. Kinda hard to fault MM for going with the two 1000 yard players. Once Driver fell off, Nelson got more reps and eventually outcompeted Jones. I think you are reaching on this idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaRisMa Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Heard a new Jermichael Finley story today. My coworker is eskimo brothers with him. While he was already married, he slept with a Green Bay Hooter's waitress. That Hooters waitress went to East Troy HS with my buddy. He got to meet Finley, including riding in his limo where he offered my friend booze. He was 20 at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 https://www.packers.com/video/mike-daniels-breaks-down-game-film Man I could listen to Mike Daniels all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, ArthurPensky said: https://www.packers.com/video/mike-daniels-breaks-down-game-film Man I could listen to Mike Daniels all day. Thats a good one, Joe Thomas is a really fun listen too if you have gamepass. Just a super smart guy. Baldy puts out good content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 ^Love that play. Every time someone posts it, I watch it at least three times. Clay is our most underrated player on this board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecatcher Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Outpost31 said: ^Love that play. Every time someone posts it, I watch it at least three times. Clay is our most underrated player on this board. I agree. The fact that he doesn't get as many sacks is all people care about but he does so much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Can you guess the CBs? Player B didn't do some of the drills. Wonder how they would compare overall. They may not be the best comparison, especially based on incomplete data, but I'm gonna go ahead and do it and say Player A's rookie season will go as well as Player B. A: HEIGHT 5' 10" WEIGHT: 196 lbs ARMS: 31 1/8” HANDS: 9 1/2” 40 Yard Dash: 4.38 Bench Press: 14 Vertical Jump: 35.0 Broad Jump 127.0 3 Cone Drill: 6.71 20 Yd Shuttle: 3.98 B: 6'0"HEIGHT 31 1/4"ARM LENGTH 193LBS.WEIGHT 8 7/8"HANDS 40 Yard Dash: 4.36 Vertical Jump: 38.5 Broad Jump 132.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Outpost31 said: ^Love that play. Every time someone posts it, I watch it at least three times. Clay is our most underrated player on this board. Why did you change your name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, ArthurPensky said: Can you guess the CBs? Player B didn't do some of the drills. Wonder how they would compare overall. They may not be the best comparison, especially based on incomplete data, but I'm gonna go ahead and do it and say Player A's rookie season will go as well as Player B. A: HEIGHT 5' 10" WEIGHT: 196 lbs ARMS: 31 1/8” HANDS: 9 1/2” 40 Yard Dash: 4.38 Bench Press: 14 Vertical Jump: 35.0 Broad Jump 127.0 3 Cone Drill: 6.71 20 Yd Shuttle: 3.98 B: 6'0"HEIGHT 31 1/4"ARM LENGTH 193LBS.WEIGHT 8 7/8"HANDS 40 Yard Dash: 4.36 Vertical Jump: 38.5 Broad Jump 132.0 I am going to guess that A is Jaire Alexander, and B is Marshon Lattimore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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