Random Packer News & Notes

[packfanfb]

57 minutes ago, Leader said:

Paul Bretl -   According to PFF, the Packers have 271 pressures generated this season, which is the 4th highest total in football.

Doing this without Z is impressive. Also, take into account that we lost our No. 4 EDGE in Mercilus as well and behind Smith/Gary we have two guys who barely sniff the QB (Tipa/Garvin). That means our IDL have really stepped up their games this year from a pass rushing aspect. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by packfanfb

[craig]

MLF talks about having "scripted" plays.  In past there used to be a story that sometimes Holmgren had like the first 15 plays "scripted", and that some of the more creative and uniquely effective stuff, would happen early.  

Is there anything to make of how bad the 1st-quarter offense has been this year? 

1. For example, does that reflect that MLF and Hackett are NOT good scriptwriters?  It's more when Rodgers and Dillon start improvising and going off-script that the offense starts to move?
2. Or, is the offense so RPO dictated by defensive fronts that "scripting early plays" has no place in today's game?  How can you even script a 1st play when you don't know how the defense will set up?  Or the 2nd or 3rd play if you don't know whether the first play will get 6 or will get stacked for no gain?  Or if the second play will be a sack or not?  
3. Probably that's always been true, and there never really was "first-15-scripted", those too were always very conditional and situational?  

I assume they basically have a bunch of "scripted" plays in the sense that each is situational with RPO.  You have a couple of short-yardage scripts, and Rodgers can RPO choose amongst them based on what he sees?  Maybe you have a dozen 1st-and-ten scripts, each with some RPO variance?  I assume that kind of adapt-and-respond stuff was true back in the Holmgren era too, it's not like defenses didn't shift or vary their personnel then just like they do now.  

Does very detailed "scripting" just run kinda contrary to the MLF philosophy, in which there are supposed to multiple options built into each play and each personnel package?  

But, why do they stink for 1st-quarter offense?

• MLF has bad plays planned?
• They are trying so hard to "establish the run" that in many first quarters, they're running themselves into some unfavorable down-and-distance?  (Not true on Sunday, I think first three plays were all passing plays, yes?)
• Rodgers is looking for too much at first, and isn't settling for short completions while looking for longer ones?  Maybe after getting pressured some, he adapts and settles for shorter ones?  
• Rodgers just takes a while to get warmed up, both accuracy-wise and reading-the-defense-wise and decision-making-wise?
• All the inexperienced fill-in linemen, it takes THEM a while to get warmed up and figure out what they can do?
• All the inexperienced fill-in linemen, it takes both Rodgers and MLF time to figure out which linemen are going to be outclassed and which types of plays can actually work?  
• All the inexperienced fill-in linemen, MLF is starting out by keeping so many TE's and backs in to help them at first that there aren't enough targets going out to get open?  (I don't think that was true on Sunday.). 
• There is no reason, it's just coincidence?
• Adams is so central to everything MLF and Rodgers wants to do, it takes a while to figure out how he's getting defended and what vulnerabilities their coverage approach is exposing?  

I'm just trying to understand why it's so hard in the first quarter to get the offense rolling.  

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Doing this without Z is impressive. Also, take into account that we lost our No. 4 EDGE in Mercilus as well and behind Smith/Gary we have two guys who barely sniff the QB (Tipa/Garvin). That means our IDL have really stepped up their games this year from a pass rushing aspect. 

Agree. As I mentioned to Old Guy - we seemed to be getting much better push and disruption from the interior DL than I can recall. I know Kenny's balling out, but it takes more than one and I'm not sure if its Keke or Lowry or who thats helping the most.

Gary's been a beast from the outside.

[skibrett15]

18 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

They have executive of the year awards, too though.

Just don't see any coach that has overcome more adversity against a gauntlet schedule and is still the #1 seed than MLF. He should be the pretty clear front-runner IMO.

BB took a bad team in 2020 and turned it into an elite team in 2021.

Coached NE to top defensive DVOA, and top 2 overall DVOA, and guided a team with a rookie QB to a likely division title and possible first round bye.  All while having the equivalent of Jordan love as his QB. 

MLF is having a classic Andy Reid season.  It's a very good job with an elite QB and a few disappointing losses.  Just not a coach of the year story like BB.

[Packerraymond]

22 minutes ago, craig said:

MLF talks about having "scripted" plays.  In past there used to be a story that sometimes Holmgren had like the first 15 plays "scripted", and that some of the more creative and uniquely effective stuff, would happen early.  

Is there anything to make of how bad the 1st-quarter offense has been this year? 

1. For example, does that reflect that MLF and Hackett are NOT good scriptwriters?  It's more when Rodgers and Dillon start improvising and going off-script that the offense starts to move?
2. Or, is the offense so RPO dictated by defensive fronts that "scripting early plays" has no place in today's game?  How can you even script a 1st play when you don't know how the defense will set up?  Or the 2nd or 3rd play if you don't know whether the first play will get 6 or will get stacked for no gain?  Or if the second play will be a sack or not?  
3. Probably that's always been true, and there never really was "first-15-scripted", those too were always very conditional and situational?  

I assume they basically have a bunch of "scripted" plays in the sense that each is situational with RPO.  You have a couple of short-yardage scripts, and Rodgers can RPO choose amongst them based on what he sees?  Maybe you have a dozen 1st-and-ten scripts, each with some RPO variance?  I assume that kind of adapt-and-respond stuff was true back in the Holmgren era too, it's not like defenses didn't shift or vary their personnel then just like they do now.  

Does very detailed "scripting" just run kinda contrary to the MLF philosophy, in which there are supposed to multiple options built into each play and each personnel package?  

But, why do they stink for 1st-quarter offense?

• MLF has bad plays planned?
• They are trying so hard to "establish the run" that in many first quarters, they're running themselves into some unfavorable down-and-distance?  (Not true on Sunday, I think first three plays were all passing plays, yes?)
• Rodgers is looking for too much at first, and isn't settling for short completions while looking for longer ones?  Maybe after getting pressured some, he adapts and settles for shorter ones?  
• Rodgers just takes a while to get warmed up, both accuracy-wise and reading-the-defense-wise and decision-making-wise?
• All the inexperienced fill-in linemen, it takes THEM a while to get warmed up and figure out what they can do?
• All the inexperienced fill-in linemen, it takes both Rodgers and MLF time to figure out which linemen are going to be outclassed and which types of plays can actually work?  
• All the inexperienced fill-in linemen, MLF is starting out by keeping so many TE's and backs in to help them at first that there aren't enough targets going out to get open?  (I don't think that was true on Sunday.). 
• There is no reason, it's just coincidence?
• Adams is so central to everything MLF and Rodgers wants to do, it takes a while to figure out how he's getting defended and what vulnerabilities their coverage approach is exposing?  

I'm just trying to understand why it's so hard in the first quarter to get the offense rolling.  

Every football team scripts their first 10-15 plays, we had a script even in D3 ball. You watch the opposition on film and plan the plays you immediately want to run against their defense.

One penalty or sack or bad execution takes you off script as the script assumes yardage gained by each play.

We scored on like every first drive we in 2019 and 2020, this is what's called regression to the mean. LaFleur and Rodgers draw up a great script.

[incognito_man]

1 minute ago, skibrett15 said:

BB took a bad team in 2020 and turned it into an elite team in 2021.

Coached NE to top defensive DVOA, and top 2 overall DVOA, and guided a team with a rookie QB to a likely division title and possible first round bye.  All while having the equivalent of Jordan love as his QB. 

MLF is having a classic Andy Reid season.  It's a very good job with an elite QB and a few disappointing losses.  Just not a coach of the year story like BB.

The Patriots were the most injured team in 2020. Belichick couldn't coach a good team last year largely due to injuries.

MLF is still coaching an elite team despite injuries. This reasoning is even MORE reason that MLF should win it ahead of Belichick.

[Packerraymond]

3 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

BB took a bad team in 2020 and turned it into an elite team in 2021.

Coached NE to top defensive DVOA, and top 2 overall DVOA, and guided a team with a rookie QB to a likely division title and possible first round bye.  All while having the equivalent of Jordan love as his QB. 

MLF is having a classic Andy Reid season.  It's a very good job with an elite QB and a few disappointing losses.  Just not a coach of the year story like BB.

Lol, you'll go out of your way to not give positive Packers takes lately. 

[skibrett15]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Lol, you'll go out of your way to not give positive Packers takes lately. 

?

[skibrett15]

Only point I'm trying to make here, and flabbergasted y'all cant see it, is that you don't win coach of the year when the opponent is the best coach of all time having HIS best coaching season of all time.

[incognito_man]

Just now, skibrett15 said:

?

You just used the following logic to push MLF down in the conversation:

"Last year, the Patriots were the most injured team and suffered a bad season. This season they are much healthier and a much better team, therefore BB should win COTY."

It's not logical to reward that over the guy who is doing even better than BB while being the most injured team in the league...

[{Family Ghost}]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Every football team scripts their first 10-15 plays, we had a script even in D3 ball. You watch the opposition on film and plan the plays you immediately want to run against their defense.

One penalty or sack or bad execution takes you off script as the script assumes yardage gained by each play.

We scored on like every first drive we in 2019 and 2020, this is what's called regression to the mean. LaFleur and Rodgers draw up a great script.

I don't like when they call long developing plays to start a game .. it rarely seems to work.  It takes a while for our Oline to get their footing, and then Rodgers is getting dumped before the play develops.  It happened a few times on the first couple drives against the Bears.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by {Family Ghost}

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

Only point I'm trying to make here, and flabbergasted y'all cant see it, is that you don't win coach of the year when the opponent is the best coach of all time having HIS best coaching season of all time.

I think most of us realize that this elementary take is very possible to lead to BB winning COTY, but it's not justified whatsoever if one looks even a little deeper.

[skibrett15]

Just now, incognito_man said:

You just used the following logic to push MLF down in the conversation:

"Last year, the Patriots were the most injured team and suffered a bad season. This season they are much healthier and a much better team, therefore BB should win COTY."

It's not logical to reward that over the guy who is doing even better than BB while being the most injured team in the league...

"?" is only about Ray saying I'm going out of my way to make anti-packers chatter. Can't see that trend from my end.

I get your point about the adjusted games lost.
just think you're too focused on that one aspect.  BB took a brand new team, a brand new approach, a brand new QB then mixed in some of the most creative game plans we've ever seen.

 

Roster wise, I wouldn't trade the injured packers for the Patriots even if we get to keep Rodgers.  Those pats skill positions guys are awful, and the defense is a scheme thing more than outright talent.

[Toddfather]

No way BB doesn't get it. Sucks, but I don't see it going to MLF.

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

?

BB has faced little to no adversity. In their wins vs teams with winning records, they faced Cleveland without Baker, Chubb, Hunt, Tenn without Brown, Julio and Henry, and the Bills in a winter storm making passing impossible. Their best win is probably the 3 point Chargers win. All while remaining relatively healthy and spending a crap ton in FA.

MLF endured about the most possible tumultuous off-season one can endure, only to go into a regular season where he's had 1 starter on offense (Royce Newman) not miss a game, and endured even more drama this season regarding his QB. All this and we're the #1 team in the NFL.

I don't see how anyone unless they're deliberately trying to be negative can have your take.