MacReady Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 9 hours ago, wgbeethree said: 6 of the top 9 in team rushing yards made the playoffs. 8 of the top 12 in team YPC made the playoffs. 4 of the top 5 in team rushing TDs made the playoffs. Rushing is not synonymous with running back. The Chiefs just won with that midround rookie. The Rams won with Akers not even having anything to do with it. I can remember Fournette, but was he special? The Chiefs had who in their last one? Patriots, Eagles, Patriots, Broncos, Patriots, Seahawks, Ravens… I can’t even remember the last time a team needed an elite RB to win a Super Bowl. Nobody is discounting the need to be able to run. You don’t need a legit RB to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zycho32 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 I've seen a few former alumni show up in the XFL already. Geronimo Allison plays for Vegas and seems to be a starter. Sal Cannella plays for Arlington. And I just saw a highlight of a Jack Heflin sack for Houston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Rushing is not synonymous with running back. The Chiefs just won with that midround rookie. The Rams won with Akers not even having anything to do with it. I can remember Fournette, but was he special? The Chiefs had who in their last one? Patriots, Eagles, Patriots, Broncos, Patriots, Seahawks, Ravens… I can’t even remember the last time a team needed an elite RB to win a Super Bowl. Nobody is discounting the need to be able to run. You don’t need a legit RB to get there. I don't disagree with any of this. Having a good ground/rushing game seems to be a pretty irrefutablely important thing for success though and having a really good RB should help. There's a lot of other factors obviously. Oline and game management being obviously important. Having an elite runningback isn't a qualifier of anything but having a good running team is a pretty good indicator of success and having good running backs certainly doesn't hurt. Obviously not counting QBs I'd argue (apparently futially) having an elite RB is the best path/most impactful position towards be at least moderately successful. Edited February 19, 2023 by wgbeethree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Eddie Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 7 hours ago, Zycho32 said: I've seen a few former alumni show up in the XFL already. Geronimo Allison plays for Vegas and seems to be a starter. Sal Cannella plays for Arlington. And I just saw a highlight of a Jack Heflin sack for Houston. Terrell Buckley is HC of the XFL Orlando Guardians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 20 hours ago, squire12 said: Not sure. But those top level RB duos didn't lead them to the playoffs. To say one group of players didn't lead any team to the playoffs is goofy. What about special teams (Packers more than once), defense (Packers more than once), OL (Packers more than once) has caused a team to not make the playoffs. That's just goofy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 16 hours ago, incognito_man said: No it's not. The chance of us competing in 2023 with Love is really high and I promise you Vegas odds will reflect that if/when that happens. The rosters from Rodgers first year and the 2023 roster aren't comparable. Rodgers in his first year starting would have taken the 2023 roster to the playoffs. Ok, will have to agree to disagree. My take is this wasn't a Championship roster in 2023. Unless we go even more cap kicking , mortgaging the future and so on, its likely the roster will be weaker next year than it was in 2023. Obviously we don't know who will make a jump, who we will sign and so on but on the balance of probabilities it is likely to be weaker. So you combine a roster that wasn't good enough in 2023, is likely to be weaker in 2024 with a first year starter in Love who at this stage we don't even know is good enough to play in the NFL. It just seems to me to be incredibly naive to think we have any chance to seriously compete in 2024. And making all-in moves in that circumstance just doesn't seem to be a sensible or appropriate use of resources. Don't get me wrong, come September I will be made up we have Jones on the roster as the games will be more fun to watch and hope we are in contention. There's a time when GMs need to take a step back and make sensible and responsible decisions. Just because you can restructure five contracts to squeeze in another signing doesn't mean you should always do it. Obviously if we win the super-bowl then Gutey/Ball was a genius and we are lucky to have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 9 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Rushing is not synonymous with running back. The Chiefs just won with that midround rookie. The Rams won with Akers not even having anything to do with it. I can remember Fournette, but was he special? The Chiefs had who in their last one? Patriots, Eagles, Patriots, Broncos, Patriots, Seahawks, Ravens… I can’t even remember the last time a team needed an elite RB to win a Super Bowl. Nobody is discounting the need to be able to run. You don’t need a legit RB to get there. The other aspect is, regardless of Jones' value its time to restock the RB cupboard. When we got Jones, we had zero running backs so drafted three in the late rounds. Its the perfect time to do similar as we have loads of 3rd day picks. Combine that with the fact we are one up from then in that we have Dillon plus there is less pressure to win now with a new QB (probably). Running back is a young man's game. Re-stocking with a couple of young guys on rookie contracts we can build around is much better than bringing back an old running back on borrowed time (he is already older than most RBs are that hit the wall) that we can't afford without borrowing from 2024. Anyway, what's done is done. Think it was a mistake but AJ is fun to watch so will be good to see him back next year regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoremore Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 43 minutes ago, mikemike778 said: The other aspect is, regardless of Jones' value its time to restock the RB cupboard. When we got Jones, we had zero running backs so drafted three in the late rounds. Its the perfect time to do similar as we have loads of 3rd day picks. Combine that with the fact we are one up from then in that we have Dillon plus there is less pressure to win now with a new QB (probably). Running back is a young man's game. Re-stocking with a couple of young guys on rookie contracts we can build around is much better than bringing back an old running back on borrowed time (he is already older than most RBs are that hit the wall) that we can't afford without borrowing from 2024. Anyway, what's done is done. Think it was a mistake but AJ is fun to watch so will be good to see him back next year regardless. Draft is supposed to be loaded at RB so totally agree. Take one in the middle to late rounds. Hell with all those 7th rounders take a couple of shots. One makes the roster and PS the other one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 hour ago, mikemike778 said: Ok, will have to agree to disagree. My take is this wasn't a Championship roster in 2023. 1 hour ago, mikemike778 said: The other aspect is, regardless of Jones' value its time to restock the RB cupboard. When we got Jones, we had zero running backs so drafted three in the late rounds. Its the perfect time to do similar as we have loads of 3rd day picks. Good posts, btw. I just have a couple of questions. 1. Why do you think the roster wasn't a championship roster in 2023 (other than the fact that they didn't win the championship)? What do you think the weak points are/were, and how can they be fortified? 2. I guess it is not really a question, I think that we should be taking a mid to late round RB in every draft and just churn the back end of the position. If it is done right, I think you could get away with probably never having to pay the position outside of rookie contracts. But maybe I am too optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Good posts, btw. I just have a couple of questions. 1. Why do you think the roster wasn't a championship roster in 2023 (other than the fact that they didn't win the championship)? What do you think the weak points are/were, and how can they be fortified? 2. I guess it is not really a question, I think that we should be taking a mid to late round RB in every draft and just churn the back end of the position. If it is done right, I think you could get away with probably never having to pay the position outside of rookie contracts. But maybe I am too optimistic. Obviously 2023 should have read 2022 but you got that. Defences win championships. Despite the resources we have thrown at that side of the ball, its painfully obvious when watching the best sides, how short we still are. We don't have the DL, we don't have enough pass rushers and we have gaping holes at Safety QBs also win Championships. I am a Rodgers fan but he wasn't an elite QB last year. He was a lot better than some make out but this year, he wasn't in the same league as the elite guys There's obviously a lot of other issues but that's enough to stop you winning a championship and neither of these are likely to be fixed this year given our cap issues. Obviously we could hit the jackpot. Love could be Mahones like year 1. All the young D guys could take a huge step forward and we could strike it lucky with a couple of cheap free agent pick ups that turn into All Pros. But I could win 1 million in the Premium Bonds in a week or so but I'm not budgeting around it because its not likely to happen. Edit - re point 2. That is exactly what I would do. Draft a RB every year in the 3rd day. Edited February 19, 2023 by mikemike778 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 38 minutes ago, mikemike778 said: Obviously 2023 should have read 2022 but you got that...... Thanks for clarifying that. I'm reading the back and forth....and I'm: Wait a minute....its 2023 now....why are they talking about it in the past tense? T'sall good now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 hour ago, mikemike778 said: Obviously 2023 should have read 2022 but you got that. Defences win championships. Despite the resources we have thrown at that side of the ball, its painfully obvious when watching the best sides, how short we still are. We don't have the DL, we don't have enough pass rushers and we have gaping holes at Safety QBs also win Championships. I am a Rodgers fan but he wasn't an elite QB last year. He was a lot better than some make out but this year, he wasn't in the same league as the elite guys There's obviously a lot of other issues but that's enough to stop you winning a championship and neither of these are likely to be fixed this year given our cap issues. Obviously we could hit the jackpot. Love could be Mahones like year 1. All the young D guys could take a huge step forward and we could strike it lucky with a couple of cheap free agent pick ups that turn into All Pros. But I could win 1 million in the Premium Bonds in a week or so but I'm not budgeting around it because its not likely to happen. Edit - re point 2. That is exactly what I would do. Draft a RB every year in the 3rd day. Honest question, since I can't think of it without looking it up ... When's the last time a defense win the championship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 17 minutes ago, Sandy said: Honest question, since I can't think of it without looking it up ... When's the last time a defense win the championship? Tampa Bay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 27 minutes ago, Sandy said: Honest question, since I can't think of it without looking it up ... When's the last time a defense win the championship? Baltimore for sure. One could say Tampa won the Super Bowl with Brady because of the defense. NE when they beat the Rams. Seattle when they won it was because of the defense. There are others but those off the top of my mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddfather Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 16 minutes ago, Old Guy said: Baltimore for sure. One could say Tampa won the Super Bowl with Brady because of the defense. NE when they beat the Rams. Seattle when they won it was because of the defense. There are others but those off the top of my mind. I don't know... Baltimore did have Dilfer... What a time that was lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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