Random Packer News & Notes

[OneTwoSixFive]

4 hours ago, Leader said:

I think some........clarity might be in order regards your feelings towards Favre. Just maybe

Not sure if you were going with 'I need clarity' or you do. I'll assume you want more clarity.

Favre's cannon arm, his improv skills and his willingness to do things others wouldn't (and couldn't) get away with, were pretty exciting for a fanbase that had been awful for a long time. His legendary ironman status fed into that. That's all upside and there was plenty of it in his career. The Packers went to two SBs. Football was fun.

The downside that came in the later years was the annual 'musing on retirement', the high interception rate, the acrimonious departure,  the texting a picture of his tackle to a young female (Jets) masseuse, his alleged helping the Lions when they were going to play the Packers, his unwillingness to participate in training camps, the manoeuvring to land with the Vikes so he could play the Packers twice every year for 'revenge', etc. His behaviour might have ultimately cost both the Jets HC and the Vikes HC their jobs. That soured his status in Green Bay and it took time to wash away his sins and for people (me included), not so much to forgive him, more to just let time erode some of those spiky points that hurt at the time.

Edited August 13, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

Dating myself, but Starr over Favre or Rodgers.  Favre and Rodgers were both better athletes, but Favre was a knucklehead who didn't know what a dime defense was four years into his career.  Starr was a true field general who Called his own plays. I know nobody gets to do that anymore (Rodgers came close the last couple years).

Not to rain on the Favre parade, but he would've never won a Super Bowl without the #1 defense in the NFL led by Reggie White.  Brett just turned the ball over too much.  I'll give him credit for being the most entertaining of the three.  Fans were rejuvinated and his 'good ol' boy' personna was a blast of fresh air after the long winter of the '70s and '80s.

But, Bart is the Starr!

Starr had arguably one of the best coaches of all time and a cast of players around him who are in the Hall of Fame.

Favre never had a supporting cast like that.  Neither does Rodgers.

That's my only knock against Starr...supporting cast/coach.

Moving into this era...who has more rings?  Starr with Lombardi?  Or Rodgers with Belichick?  Or Favre with Holmgren and Wolf his entire career?

Again, I don't think you can go wrong either which way.  Just fun to think about.  I think Rodgers gets more with BB, Favre gets less with H/W.

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

Favre never had a supporting cast like that.  Neither does Rodgers.

If memory serves, in 1996 the Packers had both the top rated offense and the top rated defense. That's pretty unique.

Edited August 13, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive

[vegas492]

Just now, OneTwoSixFive said:

If memory serves, in 1996 the Packers had both the top rated offense and the top rated defense. That's pretty unique.

Quick.  Top of your head.  That offense and that defense, who is in the Hall of Fame?

[OneTwoSixFive]

15 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Quick.  Top of your head.  That offense and that defense, who is in the Hall of Fame?

Post retirement age my memory isn't good enough to name more than a handful of obvious guys. I'm tempted to leave that task to others.

PS I had Brett and Reggie. I guessed at Butler, but I don't think he is there. I'm sure Clifton isn't, and I rated him highly. Ron Wolf doesn't count, as you said offense and defense.

Edited August 13, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive

[deathstar]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Most Important....could debate Starr and Favre.  Favre brought relevance back to GB.  I don't think you can go wrong either way.

I'd put Favre's mobility next to Rodgers, too.  Young Favre was an escape artist.  Again, can't go wrong either way.

Those are the only two I'd debate.

And...cool post!

I think without Favre, the stadium renovations don't get approved. If that doesn't happen then GB folds or moves. Bob Harlan was very clear that there was no plan B to maintain financial solvency for GB.

[vegas492]

5 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Post retirement age my memory isn't good enough to name more than a handful of obvious guys. I'll leave that task to others.

Because it is Favre and White.

While the cast was very good, it wasn't Hall of Fame good.  Which was my point.  Throw out the eras, those Starr led GB teams were flat out loaded with All Time talent.

Fun read here to learn just how good those guys were....  https://www.packers.com/history/hall-of-famers

Starr, Taylor, Nitschke, Hornug, Adderly, Gregg, Davis, Ringo, Wood, Jordan, Robinson, Kramer

Vs.

Favre, White.

[OneTwoSixFive]

The sheer number of HOF guys back then  IS pretty shocking

[Dubz41]

6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Because it is Favre and White.

While the cast was very good, it wasn't Hall of Fame good.  Which was my point.  Throw out the eras, those Starr led GB teams were flat out loaded with All Time talent.

Fun read here to learn just how good those guys were....  https://www.packers.com/history/hall-of-famers

Starr, Taylor, Nitschke, Hornug, Adderly, Gregg, Davis, Ringo, Wood, Jordan, Robinson, Kramer

Vs.

Favre, White.

BUT.......maybe if Favre would've won one or two more SuperBowls there would've been more HOFers elected from those years.  One and done is not going to get the recognition of a team that won 5 in 7?  Kind of chicken vs egg  ..... sort of.

[Leader]

56 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Not sure if you were going with 'I need clarity' or you do. I'll assume you want more clarity.

Favre's cannon arm, his improv skills and his willingness to do things others wouldn't (and couldn't) get away with, were pretty exciting for a fanbase that had been awful for a long time. His legendary ironman status fed into that. That's all upside and there was plenty of it in his career. The Packers went to two SBs. Football was fun.

The downside that came in the later years was the annual 'musing on retirement', the high interception rate, the acrimonious departure,  the texting a picture of his tackle to a young female (Jets) masseuse, his alleged helping the Lions when they were going to play the Packers, his unwillingness to participate in training camps, the manoeuvring to land with the Vikes so he could play the Packers twice every year for 'revenge', etc. His behaviour might have ultimately cost both the Jets HC and the Vikes HC their jobs. That soured his status in Green Bay and it took time to wash away his sins and for people (me included), not so much to forgive him, more to just let time erode some of those spiky points that hurt at the time.

Yikes. It was a joke (!) otherwise known as lighthearted humor. 

[RedRaider]

33 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

BUT.......maybe if Favre would've won one or two more SuperBowls there would've been more HOFers elected from those years.  One and done is not going to get the recognition of a team that won 5 in 7?  Kind of chicken vs egg  ..... sort of.

The point above is valid, and there were fewer teams in the late 50s and 60s to spread out the talent pool.  Plus there was not the media access to watch the shear number of games that were available in the late 90's through the 2000's.  in the 60's Better teams got more national exposure.  More national exposure helped to elevate the stature of the players.  The 1996 team did have some others that probably would be HOF quality if it weren't for the larger pool of players to choose from.  Butler, Jones, Freeman, Henderson, Dotson, Robinson, Howard were all very good players at their position for a long time.

Also, I've been reading the memoirs of the 60s Packers and one common theme is that the team needed Starr's quiet leadership to offset the brash Lombardi.  Lombardi probably doesn't work without Starr just as Starr doesn't work without Lombardi.

Also, that Holmgen guy was no slouch of a coach.

Edited August 13, 2019 by RedRaider
added comment

[Leader]

Ryan Wood: Packers QB Aaron Rodgers, who wore same helmet as Antonio Brown, asked specifically about that fiasco: "I've loved my helmet, and every one that I've worn. I don't know if I'd want to retire if I couldn't wear my helmet. I mean, I obviously didn't, because I'm here today."

/////////////

Wait for the Mike Fiorio hit piece: "Aaron Rodgers calls Antonio Brown a punk for not retiring over the helmet issue" - and Greg Jennings will be booked on every TV and radio sports talk show so he can weigh in with his candid AR insights.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Leader

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

The sheer number of HOF guys back then  IS pretty shocking

I think it is fair to argue the league as a whole...limited number of teams, different era/game...etc.  And that has merit.

But facts are facts.  Those GB teams were loaded with some of the All Time Greats.  Truly something special.

That 96 Team also has a fond spot in my heart.  Loved those guys.

I don't think Clifton was on that team, though.  Left tackle was Bruce Wilkerson, he came in for an injured Reuttgers.  Thinking Earl Dotson was our RT and a darned good one.  Thinking Aaron Taylor was a guard then?  Defense was anchored by that line.  White.  Jones.  Dotson.  Brown.  W. Simmons, Butler, Robinson.  

Thinking that was the year that Antonio Freeman broke an arm, played in a cast and dominated the playoffs.  Rison came over for some mid season help.  Keith Jackson was still a great tight end.  Bennett and Levens in the backfield?

Oh...and the punt/kick returner in Desmond Howard.

[green machine]

On 8/11/2019 at 4:19 PM, green machine said:

 

and waived him with a failed physical.

[Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

Ryan Wood: Packers QB Aaron Rodgers, who wore same helmet as Antonio Brown, asked specifically about that fiasco: "I've loved my helmet, and every one that I've worn. I don't know if I'd want to retire if I couldn't wear my helmet. I mean, I obviously didn't, because I'm here today."

/////////////

Wait for the Mike Fiorio hit piece: "Aaron Rodgers calls Antonio Brown a punk for not retiring over the helmet issue" - and Greg Jennings will be booked on every TV and radio sports talk show so he can weigh in with his candid AR insights.

If Florio didn't troll Rodgers as much as he does, for every little thing, his business would probably take a hit.  That guy has basically decided that pi$$ing off Packer nation is good for his business model, so I fully expect more of the same, as you suggested above.  The only recourse we have is to stop clicking his troll-bait, but that's admittedly tough to do for a lot of folks who take his stuff way too personally.