jleisher Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 I could see a OL to start the season as Jenkins LT, Taylor LG, Patrick C, Runyan RG, Turner RT. Once Bak comes back to man LT, then Jenkins slides to which ever spot is the weakest. Drafting a player like Vera-Tucker LG/LT or Mayfield RT would help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 If GB really offered Jones a contract in the neighborhood of top 5 RB money, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to use the tag on him for 2021. I have to think that even if the total guarantees offered by GB weren't what Jones was looking for, they would have easily topped the 8M being reported for the expected tag number. Spending 8M for a year of Jones at his peak value is not a bad investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonKarman Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: If GB really offered Jones a contract in the neighborhood of top 5 RB money, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to use the tag on him for 2021. I have to think that even if the total guarantees offered by GB weren't what Jones was looking for, they would have easily topped the 8M being reported for the expected tag number. Spending 8M for a year of Jones at his peak value is not a bad investment. Because there's a big differerence between guaranteed and non-guaranteed money. Jones rejected the offer due to the lack of guarantees, and taging him is using a completely different strategy that makes no senses, as besides to the guaranteed part you also have to take into account his cap hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, VonKarman said: Because there's a big differerence between guaranteed and non-guaranteed money. Jones rejected the offer due to the lack of guarantees, and taging him is using a completely different strategy that makes no senses, as besides to the guaranteed part you also have to take into account his cap hit. Makes no sense... why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 34 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: If GB really offered Jones a contract in the neighborhood of top 5 RB money, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to use the tag on him for 2021. I have to think that even if the total guarantees offered by GB weren't what Jones was looking for, they would have easily topped the 8M being reported for the expected tag number. Spending 8M for a year of Jones at his peak value is not a bad investment. Tag is a set value, full guarantee. Let's say is it $8M for Jones. GB takes an $8M cap hit in a cap tight year, so that is not a great deal for GB. A longer term deal might have been $40M over 4 years with like $10 -12M guaranteed....and a 2021 cap hit more like $4M. Better for the team but Jones wanted more in guaranteed money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 (edited) I am not confused about the implications of long term deals vs the tag. I understand why Jones would reject a long term deal with low guarantees. I also understand why GB would not want to offer Jones a long term deal with large guarantees. I don't necessarily understand why GB would balk at tagging Jones at 8M for 2021. Edited February 27, 2021 by Mazrimiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: I am not confused about the implications of long term deals vs the tag. I understand why Jones would reject a long term deal with low guarantees. I also understand why GB would not want to offer Jones a long term deal with large guarantees. I don't necessarily understand why GB would balk at tagging Jones at 8M for 2021. Because it binds GB to an $8M cap hit ( or whatever the RB tag value is) in a year where they need to get under a reduced salary cap. Who does GB move to free up that $8M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refugee Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, jleisher said: I could see a OL to start the season as Jenkins LT, Taylor LG, Patrick C, Runyan RG, Turner RT. Once Bak comes back to man LT, then Jenkins slides to which ever spot is the weakest. Drafting a player like Vera-Tucker LG/LT or Mayfield RT would help. That’s the possibility I’m envisioning. Jenkins went to LT in season when Wagner went down at RT and Turner was at LT. the idea being Turner more “ambidextrous “ and able to switch sides easier. Of course, they’ll have plenty of time to train for their position so our OLine coaching group that has been getting its praises sung will have to pull off more with less. The return of 69 will factor heavily into how well they do but I hope we bring in a young tackle to develop because they are so important to executing the plan as we witnessed in the SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: I am not confused about the implications of long term deals vs the tag. I understand why Jones would reject a long term deal with low guarantees. I also understand why GB would not want to offer Jones a long term deal with large guarantees. I don't necessarily understand why GB would balk at tagging Jones at 8M for 2021. GB not tagging Jones is a favor out of respect to him. If GB tags him, and Jones nukes his knee, game over for Jones. The last player GB tagged was Ryan Pickett, but a long term deal was worked out shortly thereafter. I'm sure any deal offered to Jones included relief for this cap strapped year. The amount of guarantees offered is unknown and the amount of guarantees expected by Jones is unknown. At the end of the day, an $8m one year hit is not favorable to GB or Jones. GB has every right, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be somewhat of a dikk move Edited February 28, 2021 by cannondale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 9 hours ago, cannondale said: It's pretty common knowledge since forever. The only thing that has changed is that RT is almost as important as LT. The salaries reflect this. The draft shows this. The measurables show this. Height, arm length, movement skills. If Linsley were 6'-5" with 34" arms instead of 6'-3" with 32" arms, he would have been a tackle You don't play a guy at S if he can play CB. You don't play a guy at C if he can play OT And that's precisely why guys like Ndamukong Suh, Aaron Donald, etc. have destroyed opposing OLs, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 8 hours ago, HighCalebR said: Theres not much that tells me Runyan is better than Lane Taylor at this point? I think you're denigrating what Lane made himself into as well with this comp. I know people love to say this and with the passing game, where its about gelling and communication, Id agree, when it comes to pulling and getting to the 2nd level the talent levels start to really expound. Lucas Patrick vs Jenkins in space are completely different animals. Correlatingly the DL and ILB are a sum of the parts in the run game, so Lowry *should* be fine between Clark Preston and a OTLB. It's fairly equal. When we're not rushing for an easy average like we had this year with basically any back that stepped in it'll be easy to point to Jones being gone. I'll be pointing to how our line has been downgraded. Going from a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year and a 10 year vet to "hopefully some combo of of that 3rd year player in a new position full time and a 5th round pick seeing their first full time action" isnt going to be as good. Im not saying its going to be a disaster, I'm saying I doubt it'll look as easy as it has. You're probably misunderstanding my argument here. I'm arguing that a JAG at LG isn't going to hold back the Packers' offense. I would argue that Runyan is better than Lane Taylor right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWhitehurst Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I personally don't think we've gotten a big enough sample size on Runyan to declare him a starting OG, though, undoubtedly, what we have seen looks promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 9 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The average OT salary is 50% higher than the average C. Tackles are drafted in the first round at an almost 4:1 ratio compared to C. LT 2-6 are paid an average of $17M/year, RT 2-6 are paid an average of $12.5M/year, and C 2-6 are paid an average of $10.8M. I'm not a statistician, but I believe C's are paid closer to RTs than they are LTs. And you know as well as I that LTs =/= RTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 9 hours ago, cannondale said: It's pretty common knowledge since forever. The only thing that has changed is that RT is almost as important as LT. The salaries reflect this. The draft shows this. The measurables show this. Height, arm length, movement skills. If Linsley were 6'-5" with 34" arms instead of 6'-3" with 32" arms, he would have been a tackle You don't play a guy at S if he can play CB. You don't play a guy at C if he can play OT Except they don't. Your best pass protector plays on the left side because it's the blind side of the QB. RT isn't nearly as valuable as the LT, and salaries support that. The top 10 LTs in terms of AAV are no lower than $13.75M/year. The 10th RT in terms of AAV is Morgan Moses/Bobby Massie at $7.7M/year. IF RTs were valued even close to LTs, they would be paid similarly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Except they don't. Your best pass protector plays on the left side because it's the blind side of the QB. RT isn't nearly as valuable as the LT, and salaries support that. The top 10 LTs in terms of AAV are no lower than $13.75M/year. The 10th RT in terms of AAV is Morgan Moses/Bobby Massie at $7.7M/year. IF RTs were valued even close to LTs, they would be paid similarly. and center are not as highly paid as RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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