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21 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

LT 2-6 are paid an average of $17M/year, RT 2-6 are paid an average of $12.5M/year, and C 2-6 are paid an average of $10.8M.  I'm not a statistician, but I believe C's are paid closer to RTs than they are LTs.  And you know as well as I that LTs =/= RTs.

What did the top paid player do to you that you omitted them in the process here?

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25 minutes ago, squire12 said:

What did the top paid player do to you that you omitted them in the process here?

Because I was under the impression that we could all agree that Lane Johnson was the exception to RTs.

EDIT: If you want to include the top OT as well, LT 1-6 averaged $18.1M and RT 1-6 averaged $13.4M.  That's a difference of nearly $5M.

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

And that's precisely why guys like Ndamukong Suh, Aaron Donald, etc. have destroyed opposing OLs, right?

One thing has nothing to do with another. I don't know what else I can say. Everything I listed is pretty much fact. God only makes so many guys with the measurables to play outside. And that's where the money is. They made a movie about it. My reference to RT being just as important stems from when the pass game became so prevalent. Teams started moving their rushers around, hence the RT's needed to be just as skilled as LT's in pass pro. I remember when pre-draft analysts started talking about it years ago. It used to be that RT's were more run blockers - just bigger guards. Tauscher was actually one of those at 6'-3" with 32 1/4" reach. Also probably why he lasted until the 7th round. Turns out he had great feet with an incredible anchor. If you don't believe the measurables, money, or draft position, I got nothing else.

Edited by cannondale
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15 minutes ago, cannondale said:

One thing has nothing to do with another. I don't know what else I can say. Everything I listed is pretty much fact. God only makes so many guys with the measurables to play outside. And that's where the money is. They made a movie about it. My reference to RT being just as important stems from when the pass game became so prevalent. Teams started moving their rushers around, hence the RT's needed to be just as skilled as LT's in pass pro. I remember when pre-draft analysts started talking about it years ago. It used to be that RT's were more run blockers - just bigger guards. Tauscher was actually one of those at 6'-3" with 32 1/4" reach. Also probably why he lasted until the 7th round. Turns out he had great feet with an incredible anchor. If you don't believe the measurables, money, or draft position, I got nothing else.

Except we're at a point where we've got more teams running 3-4 defenses than we do running 4-3 defenses.  The need for prototypical DEs is dwindling.

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2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Except we're at a point where we've got more teams running 3-4 defenses than we do running 4-3 defenses.  The need for prototypical DEs is dwindling.

Not sure what you're getting at. The 3-4 and Lawrence Taylor is how LT's became famous

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2 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Not sure what you're getting at. The 3-4 and Lawrence Taylor is how LT's became famous

You're missing the entirety of my post.  I'm arguing the difference between RT and IOL is minimal.  We're seeing an influx of value to IOL and RT aren't premium positions compared to LT.  If you're an elite pass protector, you're moving to LT unless you're playing with a LH QB.  LT are inherently valuable because they're the guys blocking the blindside.

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27 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

You're missing the entirety of my post.  I'm arguing the difference between RT and IOL is minimal.  We're seeing an influx of value to IOL and RT aren't premium positions compared to LT.  If you're an elite pass protector, you're moving to LT unless you're playing with a LH QB.  LT are inherently valuable because they're the guys blocking the blindside.

And I disagree. RT's are still asked to block guys similar in skillset to an LT. And if your RT sucks, teams move their best rusher over and we've seen that result all too often with some RT's in the recent past. Disaster.

Linsley, for example, would get absolutely smoked on the outside. It's not his fault. He simply isn't built for that. OT's block guys who they have no business blocking on first glance

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48 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Because I was under the impression that we could all agree that Lane Johnson was the exception to RTs.

EDIT: If you want to include the top OT as well, LT 1-6 averaged $18.1M and RT 1-6 averaged $13.4M.  That's a difference of nearly $5M.

Great.  And the average of the top 5 centers are paid about 22% less than the average of the top 5 RT.

 

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2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Great.  And the average of the top 5 centers are paid about 22% less than the average of the top 5 RT.

 

So the offensive line seems to be 

LT 

RT 

IOL ( and within IOL it probably favors OG over OC)

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2 hours ago, DWhitehurst said:

I personally don't think we've gotten a big enough sample size on Runyan to declare him a starting OG, though, undoubtedly, what we have seen looks promising. 

Perhaps I am being too bullish on our guys, but I think that we saw enough of Runyan to know that he can hold up.  Is he special? I have no clue.  But he was at least average as a rookie coming in for relief duty.

I also think that Jenkins, with Patrick to his right side will be part of our preferred OL lineup, which one plays center remains a mystery to me.  I think Jenkins' best position is LG, and if at all possible, it would be nice to keep him there.   

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3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You're probably misunderstanding my argument here.  I'm arguing that a JAG at LG isn't going to hold back the Packers' offense.  I would argue that Runyan is better than Lane Taylor right now.

Ok, at this point, perhaps. *the last time Lane played extensive time* was more the point. Lane showed drive ability and a real anchor. Runyan has shown that hes not out of his league.

A JAG getting abused by DeForest Buckner types in the NFC Champ game could easily derail us as much as a Lowry type getting run over. You have to be willing to commit help in either situation. Pettine wasnt willing to help Lowry. With 2 out of 3 of the interior dudes being mediocre theres less help to be had. That means if we run into a dominant front we'll be in trouble, again. Having Elgton be able to hold his own and Linsley slant was a real boon. Especially being able to have Marcedes help on the RT.

I think the D can be fine running Lowry/Lancaster.. if you help them, maybe commit a safety. I think an interior of Elgton and 2 Lucas Patricks can be alright, but we have to be aware that help will need to be had as well.. If that's through the playcalls, Deguara, Dillon whatever.  There will be less time in the pocket. There will be less room in the run lanes. Should we be able to make it work? Absolutely.  But it won't be as good as it was this year.

Especially if we kick Elgton out to tackle. Billy turner, Lucas Patrick and ? Aarons going to have to use a lot more detergent.

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Average TOP 10 contract from OverTheCap:

Position	Top 10
LT	 	$17.198.750 
RT	 	$11.883.000 
RG	 	$11.273.000 
C	 	$10.734.060 
LG	 	$10.296.100 

However, the differences start much higher and then RG, LG and even RT go way down while Center stays pretty much flat:

OL-Contracts.png

This can be easily seen in the 10th contract for each position:

Position	10th contract
LT	 	$14.500.000 
C	 	$9.500.000 
RT	 	$8.125.000 
LG	 	$6.200.000 
RG	 	$5.400.000 

 

Edited by Packer_ESP
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5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

LT 2-6 are paid an average of $17M/year, RT 2-6 are paid an average of $12.5M/year, and C 2-6 are paid an average of $10.8M.  I'm not a statistician, but I believe C's are paid closer to RTs than they are LTs.  And you know as well as I that LTs =/= RTs.

Centers are paid closer to RTs than RTs are to LTs, but to a large extent that makes sense. RTs are generally what is left over from the LT ranks. You're paying the (at best) 12th best Offensive Tackle, (and realistically more like 20th) as much as the best Center.

Even still, the average C contract is 3.19 million. The average RT contract is 5.47. Teams are generally willing to pay an elite Center around what a really good RT makes, 

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14 hours ago, squire12 said:

Because it binds GB to an $8M cap hit ( or whatever the RB tag value is) in a year where they need to get under a reduced salary cap.

Who does GB move to free up that $8M?

If my choice is spending 8M in 2021 on Jones or P-Smith, paying Jones is an easy choice.

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The LT/RT pay discrepancy is more to do with the assumption that, if you are a high pedigree player, you play left. The only tackles making top 10 tackle money are Lane Johnson (was on a team with Jason Peters, 18M), Trent Brown (was a LT before going to Oak who had one 16.5), 

 

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