Random Packer News & Notes

[Norm]

I'm a bigger believer in momentum and the psychology of sports than most. It's the reason I think Brady teams win so much. Even crippled Peyton pulling one off with worse than Tebow stats. It doessomething to the team somehow. They believe. Kept Capers and baldie too long and I don't know how you can go out and believe in that crap when it never works. Has to effect players. Even with King coming back, even if he's on point other guys probably got the yips on the back end over what he can do, things like that. On top of that we've just never felt like a resilient team under Rodgers, I'm sure there's a million examples to show I'm stupid but overall it just doesn't feel that way.

The HS I went to has a BB coach that started when I was a frosh. He's a good coach, he's made the tourney nearly every year since, I think made it like 11 of last 15 or something. But he's never won a title, made one title game. Everyone hates him, which they had made THREEEEEEEEEEEEEE tournaments in the previous 60 years or whatever the hell it was. But I get it. When you get that close to tasting it over and over but can never do it, I mean, it's almost more frustrating than not thinking of it as far as the mental state of fans. 

[Norm]

1 minute ago, TransientTexan said:

I’m not meaning to imply that, I’m just sad that so much of football fandom (or any sports fandom) has gotten this way. Maybe there was some of this same thing in the 60’s-80’s and I wasn’t around to see it, but it just seems like people back then had a more innocent and enjoyable experience. They just got down to the base-level of football and enjoyed watching and appreciating the feats of athleticism on a play-to-play basis and game-to-game basis. And not getting wrapping up in expectations or grander narratives of how history will view this or that player/team.

players stayed with the same team for ages so there was even less roster turnover than the boring seasons of today. 

Oh I know you weren't. I give @packfanfbmore **** than anyone BUT I totally get what he means. He just wants to be better, he wants to win, he just sees it a different way. Adding talent IS good. For a long time I was like meh, but this would have been the year, but with everything that happened....did not help. But he's not a bad fan, he's a good fan. He wants to win. So do we all. This year I see his frustration more than ever. I think some of the years we lost, dice roll some of those games again and we do have more rings. I do. But idk, I'm just at the point of flush this down the toilet so I don't have to watch another NFCC failure I guess?

But yes, we do enjoy the TMZ aspect of sports more than ever and it's what I hate the most. It's why I find it hilarious that shows/channels that special in BETTING are the only ones that talk the game anymore. Fantasy shows are better than NFL live now and it's pathetic. We're all just so impatient anymore, myself included. I used to rewatch games, even PS games over and over. Now I just don't care, don't have time. Can't be bothered to follow the draft. Need my news 155 characters at a time. The internet was a mistake TT

[incognito_man]

21 minutes ago, Norm said:

I'm a bigger believer in momentum and the psychology of sports than most. It's the reason I think Brady teams win so much. Even crippled Peyton pulling one off with worse than Tebow stats. It doessomething to the team somehow. They believe. Kept Capers and baldie too long and I don't know how you can go out and believe in that crap when it never works. Has to effect players. Even with King coming back, even if he's on point other guys probably got the yips on the back end over what he can do, things like that. On top of that we've just never felt like a resilient team under Rodgers, I'm sure there's a million examples to show I'm stupid but overall it just doesn't feel that way.

The HS I went to has a BB coach that started when I was a frosh. He's a good coach, he's made the tourney nearly every year since, I think made it like 11 of last 15 or something. But he's never won a title, made one title game. Everyone hates him, which they had made THREEEEEEEEEEEEEE tournaments in the previous 60 years or whatever the hell it was. But I get it. When you get that close to tasting it over and over but can never do it, I mean, it's almost more frustrating than not thinking of it as far as the mental state of fans. 

I 100% agree. People have a tendency to self-fulfill their own prophecies. Whether you think you can or you cannot: you are correct.

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I 100% agree. People have a tendency to self-fulfill their own prophecies. Whether you think you can or you cannot: you are correct.

People think when you become a "professional" all the sudden all the life experience we've learned about how people behave in competitive places goes out the window. I do not agree. Sometimes coaching is just luck, you get hot and keep winning and everyone thinks you can't lose. Yes you still need talent but still. Some of those NE teams, I KNOW without that mentality they would have had no chance.  BB is a genius, TB is good. The belief they all shared was what did it, IMO, or at least an important part. I've known plenty of geniuses that couldn't get people to buy in to whatever it was they were teaching.

I will still swear if things went right with Mac even, we could have won 3-4 but once it starts to go wrong, you start going oh here we go again....

Maybe that's just me. IDK, I'm half popped bored and rambling

Edited March 30, 2021 by Norm

[squire12]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

You aren't wrong. I've been pretty spoiled. Two SBs only but that's still good for most fans. First year I can really recall football is 94 so didn't see hardly any bad seasons. Sometimes being just almost good enough gets old. I have other teams that are close, am a Gators fan, but also Detroit Tigers. Then U of SD teams. So I know what it's like to have no chance as well I suppose.

It's kind of like when I played NCAA football religiously eventually you just blow it up after 9 nattys and go start at some ******* team to start over. Except, we haven't really done **** except break my ******* heart lol

I know like Lions fans or whatever are going man I wish I was you! but I'm not really sure it matters. Being that close but falling short is still falling short. It doesn't really matter. I've never been SIGN EVERY FAAAAAAAAAAAAA and I'm not asking for it now. But when you drafted Love then got that close, it kinda feels like you didn't know that was even going to happen and you're just content to keep getting close and hope you just get insanely lucky, which you already need. 

I mean FFS, I'm probably the only one who's nearly 100% confident that the King re-sign is going to look brilliant. But still can't get behind it. Probably win 11+ barring insane injuries or something. Just don't think we have enough to beat KC and TB etc (maybe KC will suck with me playing OT IDK) but still. Hard to get excited. I was excited for last year, especially by mid season though. It felt like our year. But when you do absolutely zero it's hard to get excited. I feel like I'm rarely more than a fence sitter so I don't think I'm being out of line?

@Norm. I think I get where you are coming from.   Expectations from prior season certainly shapes the joy and with GB being so close in 19 and 20, feels like anything short of a Super Bowl appearance would be a fail.

Being a team on the rise that is putting things together has a different energy and vibe.GB hasn't been there for like 30 years.  Sure the 1 off crap year due to a Rodgers injury or Sherman coaching fiasco. 

1 hour ago, TransientTexan said:

I’m not meaning to imply that, I’m just sad that so much of football fandom (or any sports fandom) has gotten this way. Maybe there was some of this same thing in the 60’s-80’s and I wasn’t around to see it, but it just seems like people back then had a more innocent and enjoyable experience. They just got down to the base-level of football and enjoyed watching and appreciating the feats of athleticism on a play-to-play basis and game-to-game basis. And not getting wrapping up in expectations or grander narratives of how history will view this or that player/team.

players stayed with the same team for ages so there was even less roster turnover than the boring seasons of today. 

Game is certainly different now.  

[Norm]

Just now, squire12 said:

@Norm. I think I get where you are coming from.   Expectations from prior season certainly shapes the joy and with GB being so close in 19 and 20, feels like anything short of a Super Bowl appearance would be a fail.

Being a team on the rise that is putting things together has a different energy and vibe.GB hasn't been there for like 30 years.  Sure the 1 off crap year due to a Rodgers injury or Sherman coaching fiasco. 

Game is certainly different now.  

And there's nothing about this team that makes me think we're better off. I know like TT says, we WERE close but just logical thinking says you need to do more. I used to hate that **** but it's just been way too many NFCC losses with no SB appearances to think now is the year. I'm not mad at the team, I'm just not excited.It's also still March.........talk to me in August

[squire12]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

I'm a bigger believer in momentum and the psychology of sports than most. It's the reason I think Brady teams win so much. Even crippled Peyton pulling one off with worse than Tebow stats. It doessomething to the team somehow. They believe. Kept Capers and baldie too long and I don't know how you can go out and believe in that crap when it never works. Has to effect players. Even with King coming back, even if he's on point other guys probably got the yips on the back end over what he can do, things like that. On top of that we've just never felt like a resilient team under Rodgers, I'm sure there's a million examples to show I'm stupid but overall it just doesn't feel that way.

 

There is very possible something to this.  Hire from within under MM.

So few player that had played with other teams with TT.

Saw a stat a while back on Rodgers.  Something nitpicking but it was striking.  I may be off on the specifics of it. ....something like

Against a team that finished above .500 if trailing by more than 1 point at start of 4th quarter, GB with Rodgers at QB were 1 and 42.

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, squire12 said:

There is very possible something to this.  Hire from within under MM.

So few player that had played with other teams with TT.

Saw a stat a while back on Rodgers.  Something nitpicking but it was striking.  I may be off on the specifics of it. ....something like

Against a team that finished above .500 if trailing by more than 1 point at start of 4th quarter, GB with Rodgers at QB were 1 and 42.

And that was easily blamed on Capers or MP coaching and that's fine but idk. My brain says there's something more to it. I'm NOT blaming AR, but at the same time I also believe Tom Brady teams don't break even with similar talent but I'm opening a can of worms that I don't want to deal with.

There just feels like there's something to it. I BELIEVE truly AR is better QB than TB and PM, but maybe he, idk. I'll just  leave it there, everyone can fill in their blanks on it. 

But I do think one leader can shift the mentality of a team, in theory anyways. Look what TB did to Tampa....and it's not like he was a stud. There's just something there.

[squire12]

7 minutes ago, Norm said:

And there's nothing about this team that makes me think we're better off. I know like TT says, we WERE close but just logical thinking says you need to do more. I used to hate that **** but it's just been way too many NFCC losses with no SB appearances to think now is the year. I'm not mad at the team, I'm just not excited.It's also still March.........talk to me in August

I said this about a week ago.  Feels like GB wants to continue being good, is afraid to be bad ( take there shot and push more dead money to future uesrs) in an effort to be great for 1 year.

Not restructuring Rodgers roster bonus saves like $4.5M.  Not a ron of cap space, bit it could up the player from  Kevin King to Fuller.  Or adds a DL piece.

Waiting on an Adams extension or Rodgers restructure to gain some cap space in order to add some veteran pieces would be nice.  But GB seems to not want that difficult decision on dead cap in future years.

[squire12]

2 minutes ago, Norm said:

And that was easily blamed on Capers or MP coaching and that's fine but idk. My brain says there's something more to it. I'm NOT blaming AR, but at the same time I also believe Tom Brady teams don't break even with similar talent but I'm opening a can of worms that I don't want to deal with.

There just feels like there's something to it. I BELIEVE truly AR is better QB than TB and PM, but maybe he, idk. I'll just  leave it there, everyone can fill in their blanks on it. 

But I do think one leader can shift the mentality of a team, in theory anyways. Look what TB did to Tampa....and it's not like he was a stud. There's just something there.

I get it.  IT being that elusive non measurable thing that some have that instill something in other players to be/become more than what otherwise would happen.

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, squire12 said:

I said this about a week ago.  Feels like GB wants to continue being good, is afraid to be bad ( take there shot and push more dead money to future uesrs) in an effort to be great for 1 year.

Not restructuring Rodgers roster bonus saves like $4.5M.  Not a ron of cap space, bit it could up the player from  Kevin King to Fuller.  Or adds a DL piece.

Waiting on an Adams extension or Rodgers restructure to gain some cap space in order to add some veteran pieces would be nice.  But GB seems to not want that difficult decision on dead cap in future years.

Which is good and bad, ppl ***** if we have had an owner, we'd go for it. But IDK.

CHI clearly signed Dalton so the GM could hold onto his job, for example. All in all we're successful and in it every year. Give yourself a punchers chance with one of the great Qbs. I get it. Again, I'm not judging. I'm just mother ******* jaded.

[squire12]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

Which is good and bad, ppl ***** if we have had an owner, we'd go for it. But IDK.

CHI clearly signed Dalton so the GM could hold onto his job, for example. All in all we're successful and in it every year. Give yourself a punchers chance with one of the great Qbs. I get it. Again, I'm not judging. I'm just mother ******* jaded.

For sure.  GB will be in it.  But an Adams extension gains like $7-8M.  Restructure of Rodgers could have been another like $15M.

I know they still can, but the big difference making FA are off the board.

I get the future cap ramifications,  but go for it and worry about that next year.

[Brit Pack]

I woke up this morning to a beautiful conversation between TransientTexan and Norm. No ego. Just a deep and heartfelt exchange from two different view points about the Packers. Rare to find that on internet forums. Thank you both.

For me Rodgers is problem and the root of success at the same time. He is much better than he was, but he doesn't have the mental fortitude to will a team to win (exceptions against Chicago for some reason). He excels and his confidence comes from leading early in games, being in rhythm early, matching teams for score by score but going behind or getting rattled, he doesn't seem to have the mental strength, or the same mental strength as his elite competitors, to pull himself and thereby his team out of a hole.

The other element to this and we saw that last season as well, when the team is winning it takes its foot off the gas, it losses momentum and rhythm and it allows opponents back into games. The Packers/Rodgers are not ruthless enough. Prime example the Championship game against Seattle.

For the Packers and Rodgers to win we need to play perfect. That coupled with only average defences at best, means we solely rely on Rodgers to win. The defence doesn't have the mentality to take over a game either. 

It is not overall talent that we lack, as when I look at Green Bay’s roster we got great/good talent at every level. It's that mentality, that brand of football. Every team has holes but there are not many teams I would honestly swap our talent out with. I think we got a good blend of 2nd contract players, rookies and FA's. I think every team always feels they are a couple of players away from winning it all. 

However, our brand of Packers football though lacks that sense of definition which comes either from the defence or the QB. Brady has that 'ultimate winning' brand, Mahomes has that ‘pull it out of nothing' brand, Baltimore still has that 'mean defence' brand, Russel Wilson 'it's never over' brand. Rodgers in my mind is the 'perfectionist' brand, meaning everything has to go right to win, players on offence have to be in tune and run perfect routes etc and Rodgers has to be perfect.  Trouble is hard to be perfect all season long.   

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

I woke up this morning to a beautiful conversation between TransientTexan and Norm. No ego. Just a deep and heartfelt exchange from two different view points about the Packers. Rare to find that on internet forums. Thank you both.

For me Rodgers is problem and the root of success at the same time. He is much better than he was, but he doesn't have the mental fortitude to will a team to win (exceptions against Chicago for some reason). He excels and his confidence comes from leading early in games, being in rhythm early, matching teams for score by score but going behind or getting rattled, he doesn't seem to have the mental strength, or the same mental strength as his elite competitors, to pull himself and thereby his team out of a hole.

The other element to this and we saw that last season as well, when the team is winning it takes its foot off the gas, it losses momentum and rhythm and it allows opponents back into games. The Packers/Rodgers are not ruthless enough. Prime example the Championship game against Seattle.

For the Packers and Rodgers to win we need to play perfect. That coupled with only average defences at best, means we solely rely on Rodgers to win. The defence doesn't have the mentality to take over a game either. 

It is not overall talent that we lack, as when I look at Green Bay’s roster we got great/good talent at every level. It's that mentality, that brand of football. Every team has holes but there are not many teams I would honestly swap our talent out with. I think we got a good blend of 2nd contract players, rookies and FA's. I think every team always feels they are a couple of players away from winning it all. 

However, our brand of Packers football though lacks that sense of definition which comes either from the defence or the QB. Brady has that 'ultimate winning' brand, Mahomes has that ‘pull it out of nothing' brand, Baltimore still has that 'mean defence' brand, Russel Wilson 'it's never over' brand. Rodgers in my mind is the 'perfectionist' brand, meaning everything has to go right to win, players on offence have to be in tune and run perfect routes etc and Rodgers has to be perfect.  Trouble is hard to be perfect all season long.   

I would like this 13 times in a row if I could.

Like it's not even a question anymore.  I can tell if a game is going to end in a win or a loss by the time the first quarter is over.  Ehhhh, not the first quarter.  I'd say three possessions per team.

The Packers for as long as Rodgers is here will NEVER be able to win a game where the opposing defense kicks some teeth on the line and pushes the receivers around.  Throw off Aaron's timing, his rhythm, don't let him do what he wants to do and you win.

Unless he happens to have BJ Raji, Ryan Pickett, Tramon Williams, Charles Woodson, Sam Shields, Clay Matthews, Cullen Jenkins, Desmond Bishop, AJ Hawk, Howard Green... on defense.  And Bulaga, Clifton having great years. 

Aaron is an IF QB.  If he has this, if he has that, if this doesn't happen, if that doesn't happen.  It's almost like he's got this defeatist attitude where if his RB fumbles the ball and the opposition scores, Aaron's like, "Well **** it, everyone around me is incompetent." 

And I think he lets the performance of his teammates dictate how he plays way, way, way too much.

It's like... Yeah, the 2011 Giants game Grant fumbled.
The 2016 Falcons game Ripkowski fumbled.
The 2020 Buccaneers game Jones fumbled.

This past Sorrow, I thought Aaron was finally ready to just shut up and deal with it when he was in the middle of that comeback attempt, but then the defense stops Brady like 4 consecutive times and Rodgers doesn't do a Goddamn thing. 

I just get so frustrated with Rodgers because I feel like his perfectionist mentality is NOT conducive to winning Super Bowls.

MVS is the perfect - PERFECT - evidence in this.  In McCarthy's one year with MVS, Aaron literally stopped giving MVS opportunities.  He'd still throw to him, it would still technically be a target, but the throws were so Godawful that either Rodgers was playing with a literal broken throwing arm or he wasn't even giving MVS a chance.

And why TF not?  You're out of the playoffs.  It doesn't ****ing matter anymore.  I'll never forget the throw he attempted to MVS in that Seattle loss during a crucial third down attempt.  Threw it in the dirt five yards behind MVS, who was open for the conversion. 

Then LaFleur comes around and we get the year of 20 yards over their heads Rodgers.  It's the same bull****.  He's not even attempting these throws, but still throwing them, and they're going so far over the receiver's heads they have zero chance.

How many passes to MVS ended in interceptions because MVS dropped/tipped the ball or wasn't in the right spot?  Let's say 6.  Aaron Rodgers only has 11 interceptions since MVS entered the league, so let's blame him for over half of Aaron's interceptions even though if we're being honest, we know that most of Aaron's interceptions have come from forcing it to Davante.  So that's 6 interceptions "on" MVS, but MVS has 8 TDs. 

And I'm not even done on MVS.  Aaron flat out stopped throwing to him in 2019.  Throwing out the TERRIBLE Lions game in week 17 from Aaron that year (it was bad, literally nobody can deny how bad it was), MVS had 49 targets on the year.  Only 12 of those 49 targets came in the second half of the season.

If Aaron had stopped throwing to MVS at the midway point this past year, he would have missed out on 344 yards and 5 touchdowns.

It's just bull**** to me how Aaron gets away with this crap.  He literally won't even look at MVS for 5 games a year. 

Then you look at someone like Brady who has had Randy Moss for one year and then turned Wes Welker and Julian Edleman into legitimate receivers.

In a year where he has Gronkowski, Howard, Brown, Evans, Godwin...

Tyler Johnson has 17 targets, 12 receptions.
Scotty Miller has 53 targets and 33 receptions.

Aaron literally makes the game harder on himself and it has led to so many losses I can't even keep track of them all.

When you only throw to "Aaron open" receivers, it's twice as easy to defend and gameplan and three times as easy for your gameplan to turn to ****. 

[deathstar]

I think there are valid criticisms of Rodgers’ performance in big games. I think the biggest reason for our loss in the NFC Championship game is not converting after the turnovers. I also think that anyone who would take TB and that offense over ours last season is crazy banana face. 
 

I think Norm said it best at the top of this page. This fan base has experienced so many wins it doesn’t recognize how good we have it right now. We are bringing back one of the most efficient offenses in history with an upgraded RB2 and an upgraded WR corps, better TEs than the majority of last season, and a defense that was top ten despite playing ten yards off on third and 2.

But some fans just get off on the whole doom and gloom thing. That’s fine I guess.