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2 hours ago, Green19 said:

The question is do you want to win consistently or not. Because not having a Future HOF doesn’t mean not winning championship... given the title break down.

They seem to render the same rate of championships... at least when you don’t factor in New England.

 

Why wouldn't you factor in New England ?     Surely they are exhibit A in why QBs are so valuable. 

 

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28 minutes ago, mikemike778 said:

 

Why wouldn't you factor in New England ?     Surely they are exhibit A in why QBs are so valuable. 

 

Yes, not an outlier at all. Like, at all.

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3 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

 

Why wouldn't you factor in New England ?     Surely they are exhibit A in why QBs are so valuable. 

 

Because Tom Brady and what New England have done is an outlier. Just like I would say browns are an outlier for being bad.

If you look at the rest of the league... it averages out. You remove Tom Brady... Rodgers only having 1 super bowl doesn’t look bad. Big Ben, Eli, and Peyton (some of his contemporaries) only have one more than him. Brees, Mahomes, etc each have 1 like him.

New England shouldn’t be the measurement. They don’t represent the league as a whole.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Green19 said:

Because Tom Brady and what New England have done is an outlier. Just like I would say browns are an outlier for being bad.

If you look at the rest of the league... it averages out. You remove Tom Brady... Rodgers only having 1 super bowl doesn’t look bad. Big Ben, Eli, and Peyton (some of his contemporaries) only have one more than him. Brees, Mahomes, etc each have 1 like him.

New England shouldn’t be the measurement. They don’t represent the league as a whole.

Tom Brady and New England are outliers.

But we are discussing whether hall of fame QBs are worth it. There aren't many hall of fame QBs so you can't disregard the most successful one and claim a hall of fame QB isn't important in winning titles.

I'm not saying Rodgers 1 super bowl is bad.

I am saying the teams with hall of fame QBs win the most game and they win titles. You can't just disregard Brady's especially given they are across two teams. Having a rookie contract QB is good but having a star QB is better regardless of what percentage of the cap you pay him.

Edited by mikemike778
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7 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

Tom Brady and New England are outliers.

But we are discussing whether hall of fame QBs are worth it. There aren't many hall of fame QBs so you can't disregard the most successful one and claim a hall of fame QB isn't important in winning titles.

I'm not saying Rodgers 1 super bowl is bad.

I am saying the teams with hall of fame QBs win the most game and they win titles. You can't just disregard Brady's especially given they are across two teams. Having a rookie contract QB is good but having a star QB is better regardless of what percentage of the cap you pay him.

I understand that... I’m just doing a trimmed mean (statistics). Let’s say if Brady had won 3 or even 4 titles, that’s not that much of a difference from the others that you can make the argument for keeping him as part of the data set.

My point is you’re looking at HOF QBs and their worth... you shouldn’t use the most successful because he is an outlier and will balloon your results. A more accurate data set would be looking at the rest.

Tom Brady should be measured around the other outliers of their eras, Montana, Bradshaw, etc.

Thats part of the issue why fans and media types are crazy claiming teams have “wasted” insert QB name here. Because they treat the outlier as the standard.

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PFF -   Amari Rodgers: 25 RECs of 15+ yards from the slot in 2020.

  • Peter Bukowski -   This is something that shows up on tape. Rodgers is not some underneath slot type only. He’s not Cole Beasley or Wes Welker. He can create down the field.
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Posted (edited)

New England is not on outlier, it's a template. And depending on how many layers deep you want to go - a very simple one. A great QB that makes everyone else better on offense AND a Top 10 defense. That's not very complicated. One step further would be sign cheap veteran FA's that fill key roles. Yea, Belichick is a genius, but the template isn't complicated IMO. GB settled for dunces to run the defense and the template failed

 

Edited by cannondale
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8 minutes ago, cannondale said:

New England is not on outlier, it's a template. And depending on how many layers deep you want to go - a very simple one. A great QB that makes everyone else better on offense AND a Top 10 defense. That's not very complicated. One step further would be sign cheap veteran FA's that fill key roles. Yea, Belichick is a genius, but the template isn't complicated IMO. GB settled for dunces to run the defense and the template failed

 

So the template is to get as many really good players as you can? I think everyone agrees with that "template", the difficulty is execution. Not a lot of really good players at the most important position willingly taking below market deals and keeping their ego in check enough to build a team around them.

n=1 in modern NFL history in finding the key piece to make that template executable.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

So the template is to get as many really good players as you can? I think everyone agrees with that "template", the difficulty is execution. Not a lot of really good players at the most important position willingly taking below market deals and keeping their ego in check enough to build a team around them.

n=1 in modern NFL history in finding the key piece to make that template executable.

I failed to mention it's best not to shoot yourself in the foot along the way, but figured that was a given. The Packers had the hardest part solved. For all we know the defensive pieces were good enough. Enter the dunce defensive coordinators. 

I watched 99% of the Packer games during the Starr-Infante regimes and I can honestly say I heard "that's a season high" "that's a career best" "that's a team record" "wide open" "miscommunication" "that's a new NFL record" "that's the worst in NFL history" more during the Capers years than the Starr-Infante years combined.

Edited by cannondale
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1 hour ago, Leader said:

PFF -   Amari Rodgers: 25 RECs of 15+ yards from the slot in 2020.

  • Peter Bukowski -   This is something that shows up on tape. Rodgers is not some underneath slot type only. He’s not Cole Beasley or Wes Welker. He can create down the field.

He’s bigger and stronger than both those dudes. 

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Tom Pelissero  -   The Packers are bringing in QBs Kurt Benkert and Chad Kelly for this weekend’s rookie minicamp on a tryout basis, per sources. As Green Bay GM Brian Gutekunst noted after the draft, they'd need an extra arm or two with only 2 QBs on the roster. Benkert, Kelly get a look first.

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18 hours ago, cannondale said:

New England is not on outlier, it's a template. And depending on how many layers deep you want to go - a very simple one. A great QB that makes everyone else better on offense AND a Top 10 defense. That's not very complicated. One step further would be sign cheap veteran FA's that fill key roles. Yea, Belichick is a genius, but the template isn't complicated IMO. GB settled for dunces to run the defense and the template failed

 

The template is having a great QB and a top 10 defense? I think you're on to something. We should tell Gute and keep this a secret from the rest of the NFL.

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8 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

The template is having a great QB and a top 10 defense? I think you're on to something. We should tell Gute and keep this a secret from the rest of the NFL.

please edit your post

this is the WORLD WIDE WEB

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