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16 minutes ago, R T said:

Wondering what the # 1 weapon Rodgers has with his # 1 offense in 2020? And what is missing to keep him from having the # 1 offense in 2021?

I'm just answering the question that was asked. Refer to the post I quoted. 

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21 minutes ago, R T said:

Wondering what the # 1 weapon Rodgers has with his # 1 offense in 2020? And what is missing to keep him from having the # 1 offense in 2021?

Question number 1:  His best weapon was his off-season training.

Question number 2:  His feelings.

Other answers considered.  Adams and MLF as his best weapons.  Maybe losing his center could keep him from the #1 offense in 2021.

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52 minutes ago, malak1 said:

No. Tee Higgins would be the second best WR on the Packers today and last season. 

He wasn't getting playing time outside over Lazard and MVS.  And you don't draft a receiver like him (combine numbers) over a QB that you think has the traits to start in the league.

I think he's a good player, but I would have complained a lot about that pick if it were in the first round.  He doesn't have a special trait that I can see from his combine that would warrant a first round pick.  I didn't see a 3-cone.  Vertical leap was like 31 inches.  40 time was nothing special.

So he's a big body, with maybe nothing special to his traits.  We have that in Lazard who knew the offense and was already trusted by Rodgers.

We have a big body with speed in MVS.  

At best he would have been WR#4 last year.  Not sure he would challenge Lazard or MVS this year, but who knows.  Maybe he would have.

Claypool was the one that I thought had the athletic traits enough for us to take with that pick, but not over Love.  I would have loved a trade up for him.  Mims was the other one I liked, but if we really wanted him, we could have gone up a spot or two for him, if my memory is correct.

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2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

He wasn't getting playing time outside over Lazard and MVS.  And you don't draft a receiver like him (combine numbers) over a QB that you think has the traits to start in the league.

I think he's a good player, but I would have complained a lot about that pick if it were in the first round.  He doesn't have a special trait that I can see from his combine that would warrant a first round pick.  I didn't see a 3-cone.  Vertical leap was like 31 inches.  40 time was nothing special.

So he's a big body, with maybe nothing special to his traits.  We have that in Lazard who knew the offense and was already trusted by Rodgers.

We have a big body with speed in MVS.  

At best he would have been WR#4 last year.  Not sure he would challenge Lazard or MVS this year, but who knows.  Maybe he would have.

Claypool was the one that I thought had the athletic traits enough for us to take with that pick, but not over Love.  I would have loved a trade up for him.  Mims was the other one I liked, but if we really wanted him, we could have gone up a spot or two for him, if my memory is correct.

I'm sure you know more about your team than I do, so I take your word for it. Personally, I'd take Higgins over any of your receivers not named Davante. 

"At that point the receivers they could have targeted were no better than the ones they already had and that was more than proven last year don't you think."

The bolded is what I disagree with (sans Adams, obv). 

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5 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Question number 1:  His best weapon was his off-season training.

Question number 2:  His feelings.

Other answers considered.  Adams and MLF as his best weapons.  Maybe losing his center could keep him from the #1 offense in 2021.

I was attempting to tee up 'time' as Rodgers # 1 weapon in 2020, as in the time that his OL provides. You may have come over the top and trumped that with off-season training and feeling though. 

5 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Claypool was the one that I thought had the athletic traits enough for us to take with that pick, but not over Love.  I would have loved a trade up for him.  Mims was the other one I liked, but if we really wanted him, we could have gone up a spot or two for him, if my memory is correct.

My wild*** guess would be that Michael Pittman Jr was the next WR on the Packers board when they were on the clock in the 1st round with Claypool a close 2nd. Don't believe Higgins would of ever been an option there. 

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On 7/12/2021 at 2:08 PM, ReadyToThump said:

My concern isn't missing out on a WR in a deep draft class, it's filling the back end of the roster with guys with potential and the ability to play ST, which you can find just about anywhere(FA/UDFA/late round picks) for cheap. Sheperd had none of those qualities. 

Which is why you draft a guy with those qualities early Day 3 which....oh wait, we gave up our 4th round pick...ooops...

I too am very confident in our receiving corps, but what is lost is the fact that there were a lot of ?'s at the position contract wise up until the Amari Rodgers pick. Funchess skipped last year due to Covid concerns, we weren't sure where Lazard's contract situation would be, we weren't sure if we'd be able to pay Adams, and then it's who? An oft-injured ESB, an inconsistent MVS, and....Bueller? An investment needed to be made much earlier than it was actually made and since we've essentially drafted Josh Myers to be our Center, it makes the Jake Hanson pick look really dumb; especially when you had Dezmon Patmon, who ran a 4.48 40 with an RAS score of 8.44. It's hindset, I know, but it leaves us with only 2 WR's we know we can count on and trust in Adams and Lazard - we had no true WR2 last year, which we discussed ad nauseum...

Amari Rodgers was not only an excellent pick, but it was a pick of need@Dubz41due to the contract situation; which we all seem to forget about, myself included FWIW. Sometimes you're forced to pick a player due to need and just because you couldn't trade up for the guy you wanted doesn't mean someone else couldn't be drafted later in the draft. We've historically done fairly well with Day 3 WR picks. I honestly think Amari Rodgers will make up for that mistake over time TBH given what we've seen on his most recent tape; but there still should have been someone selected to challenge MVS/ESB at worst. Given the fact that you had an historically deep class at the position, it's ludicrous not to even pull the trigger on at least one WR. We did so back in 2013 under TT when the IOL class was incredibly deep. 

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1 hour ago, malak1 said:

I'm sure you know more about your team than I do, so I take your word for it. Personally, I'd take Higgins over any of your receivers not named Davante. 

"At that point the receivers they could have targeted were no better than the ones they already had and that was more than proven last year don't you think."

The bolded is what I disagree with (sans Adams, obv). 

Yah, you don't know our receivers.   And that is okay.  Just know that they were part of the #1 scoring offense last year.

Our "maybe" quarterback is not quick to trust receivers.  But he talked the coaches into giving Lazard a shot.  And he's been very good for us.  In our scheme, we use our WR's to run block a lot.  And he is excellent at that.  He also runs pretty good routes and most importantly, our QB trusts him.

MVS is a size/speed guy.  Just look at his yard per catch average.

No rookie that we could have drafted was coming in here and cracking the top 3.

Year two?  Different story.  And I'm not knocking Higgins at all.  I liked Claypool, and he would not have cracked that top 3 either.

But there is a point was made about our WR corp moving forward.  Sure would have been nice to have someone being groomed as a rookie last year.  We've got pretty big decisions coming up concerning WR's.  

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11 minutes ago, Joe said:

Which is why you draft a guy with those qualities early Day 3 which....oh wait, we gave up our 4th round pick...ooops...

I too am very confident in our receiving corps, but what is lost is the fact that there were a lot of ?'s at the position contract wise up until the Amari Rodgers pick. Funchess skipped last year due to Covid concerns, we weren't sure where Lazard's contract situation would be, we weren't sure if we'd be able to pay Adams, and then it's who? An oft-injured ESB, an inconsistent MVS, and....Bueller? An investment needed to be made much earlier than it was actually made and since we've essentially drafted Josh Myers to be our Center, it makes the Jake Hanson pick look really dumb; especially when you had Dezmon Patmon, who ran a 4.48 40 with an RAS score of 8.44. It's hindset, I know, but it leaves us with only 2 WR's we know we can count on and trust in Adams and Lazard - we had no true WR2 last year, which we discussed ad nauseum...

Amari Rodgers was not only an excellent pick, but it was a pick of need@Dubz41due to the contract situation; which we all seem to forget about, myself included FWIW. Sometimes you're forced to pick a player due to need and just because you couldn't trade up for the guy you wanted doesn't mean someone else couldn't be drafted later in the draft. We've historically done fairly well with Day 3 WR picks. I honestly think Amari Rodgers will make up for that mistake over time TBH given what we've seen on his most recent tape; but there still should have been someone selected to challenge MVS/ESB at worst. Given the fact that you had an historically deep class at the position, it's ludicrous not to even pull the trigger on at least one WR. We did so back in 2013 under TT when the IOL class was incredibly deep. 

Jeezus H Krist.....you rely on hindsight passing out your judgement over Gute's failure to draft a WR over a year ago to supplement an offense that went on to rank #1 in the league?!?!

Then you @ me because we draft a WR who fills a special teams need in the third round?  Like somehow that justifies your little tirades about the 2020 draft?  Come off your high hindsighted horse.

In Gute we trust.  Two consecutive appearances in the NFCCGs, but you know better? LOL

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4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Yah, you don't know our receivers.   And that is okay.  Just know that they were part of the #1 scoring offense last year.

Our "maybe" quarterback is not quick to trust receivers.  But he talked the coaches into giving Lazard a shot.  And he's been very good for us.  In our scheme, we use our WR's to run block a lot.  And he is excellent at that.  He also runs pretty good routes and most importantly, our QB trusts him.

MVS is a size/speed guy.  Just look at his yard per catch average.

No rookie that we could have drafted was coming in here and cracking the top 3.

Year two?  Different story.  And I'm not knocking Higgins at all.  I liked Claypool, and he would not have cracked that top 3 either.

But there is a point was made about our WR corp moving forward.  Sure would have been nice to have someone being groomed as a rookie last year.  We've got pretty big decisions coming up concerning WR's.  

I don't disagree with your take about how Higgins would (or would not) have been used if he were taken in 2020. What I disagree with is the assertion that Higgins is "no better" than Lazard or MVS and that it "was more than proven last year."

 

Doesn't really matter at this point, though. 

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18 minutes ago, Joe said:

I too am very confident in our receiving corps, but what is lost is the fact that there were a lot of ?'s at the position contract wise up until the Amari Rodgers pick. Funchess skipped last year due to Covid concerns, we weren't sure where Lazard's contract situation would be, we weren't sure if we'd be able to pay Adams, and then it's who? An oft-injured ESB, an inconsistent MVS, and....Bueller? An investment needed to be made much earlier than it was actually made and since we've essentially drafted Josh Myers to be our Center, it makes the Jake Hanson pick look really dumb; especially when you had Dezmon Patmon, who ran a 4.48 40 with an RAS score of 8.44. It's hindset, I know, but it leaves us with only 2 WR's we know we can count on and trust in Adams and Lazard - we had no true WR2 last year, which we discussed ad nauseum...

Amari Rodgers was not only an excellent pick, but it was a pick of need@Dubz41due to the contract situation; which we all seem to forget about, myself included FWIW. Sometimes you're forced to pick a player due to need and just because you couldn't trade up for the guy you wanted doesn't mean someone else couldn't be drafted later in the draft. We've historically done fairly well with Day 3 WR picks. I honestly think Amari Rodgers will make up for that mistake over time TBH given what we've seen on his most recent tape; but there still should have been someone selected to challenge MVS/ESB at worst. Given the fact that you had an historically deep class at the position, it's ludicrous not to even pull the trigger on at least one WR. We did so back in 2013 under TT when the IOL class was incredibly deep. 

Dezmon Patmon, who?  

The Hanson pick wasn't dumb.  It was a 6'th round pick.  Just didn't work out.  Wells was a 7'th, worked out great.  Lindsey was a 5th.  Tretter was a 4th.  I mean, you take chances on players.  Just hasn't worked out as good or as quickly for Jake.  Though I thought you were really, really adamant that he was a great pick on some other thread.

That "historically deep" WR class.  Google the draft.  Tell me who would should have taken at WR over what we took.  No trades.  Just see how the draft fell.

I think it took 19 other picks before a WR was taken after Dillon.  

34 picks for a WR to go after we took Deguara.

The one I can give you is People/Jones.  We took Martin in the 5'th at 175.  Peoples/Jones went 187.  But we are talking about the 6'th round here.  

I mean, GB may have liked a lot of WR's, draft just didn't fall their way.

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1 hour ago, malak1 said:

I'm sure you know more about your team than I do, so I take your word for it. Personally, I'd take Higgins over any of your receivers not named Davante. 

"At that point the receivers they could have targeted were no better than the ones they already had and that was more than proven last year don't you think."

The bolded is what I disagree with (sans Adams, obv). 

We used them differently.  Higgins had 108 targets last season, Lazard and MVS combined for 109. Higgins had 67 receptions while Lazard and MVS had 66.  I think it is highly unlikely that Higgins gets his volume stats on the 2020 Packers.  At the same time, it is probably also unlikely that either Lazard or MVS get 108 targets if they are on the Bengals.  

I don't think you are wrong to prefer Higgins.  But I don't think that it would make much difference either.  Adams will see the lion's share of passes.  MVS is always going to get on the field because of his speed.  Jones and Tonyan got about 60 targets.  

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Man I really should get my *** in gear with this MLF offensive philosophy post.  Suffice to say, the Packers only used 11 personnel on 60% of their offensive snaps last year, up from 55% in 2019, and they love to use their receivers as blockers for runs to the edges.  So for Higgins to see the field he'd need to either A) outshine MVS in the vertical game (unlikely), B) outshine Lazard in the blocking game (unlikely), or C) be confined to get a handful of snaps here and there and not at all be worth a 1st round pick (real likely).  This offense just didn't need a receiver, which you'd think being the #1 scoring offense would already have put to bed but somehow here we are.

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BREAKING NEWS.....

AJ “The Sauce” Dillon -   I’ve been waiting for this day for a while now and am excited to announce that I have partnered with Motts for this upcoming season to become their first ever NFL ambassador! My family and I have loved Mott’s for years and I am so excited to be apart of the Motts Team.

:)

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Aaron Nagler -   Fboutsiders Almanac highlighting why GB backed up the brinks truck for their left tackle:

“Bakhtiari somehow improved on his 1.4% blown block rate from the previous half-decade with a 0.6% rate in 2020.”

 

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