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Rams 2018 offseason


holt_bruce81

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2 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I agree with you on most of this but out of curiosity, how would you rank the top 5? Does his antics factor in or are you strictly going just off talent.

Based on talent alone I'd have him at #3, just behind Julio and Brown, and he would be neck and neck with Hopkins and AJG.

1. AB 2. JULLLIO 3.Hopkins 4.OBJ 5. Green.

 

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6 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Thats where it ends? You couldnt be more wrong. OBJ is a playmaker, and an Elite WR, I will never take that away from him. But to think there isnt a discussion of 5 WRs being better than him? You just named the 3 that are HANDS DOWN better than him. The highest you could even think about placing OBJ right now is #4. And when we get there I can easily put Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas and A.J. Green right infront of him as well. Not to mention Mike Evans. Plus the likes of Adam Thielen, Tyreke Hill, Doug Baldwin and Brandon Cooks all belong in that conversation.

My claim (to make a point) is millions of times more reasonable than you saying he is Top 5 all time. He would have some work to do in order to be thought of a Top 5 WR to wear Horns (Holt, Bruce, Ellard, Hirsch)

You’re entitled to your opinion, but I would disagree with your statement of 3 WRs being hands down better right now. 

 

AB, Nuk, Julio, OBJ could all be argued in different ways to be ordered 1-4 depending on what you’re looking for.

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2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Thats where it ends? You couldnt be more wrong. OBJ is a playmaker, and an Elite WR, I will never take that away from him. But to think there isnt a discussion of 5 WRs being better than him? You just named the 3 that are HANDS DOWN better than him. The highest you could even think about placing OBJ right now is #4. And when we get there I can easily put Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas and A.J. Green right infront of him as well. Not to mention Mike Evans. Plus the likes of Adam Thielen, Tyreke Hill, Doug Baldwin and Brandon Cooks all belong in that conversation.

My claim (to make a point) is millions of times more reasonable than you saying he is Top 5 all time. He would have some work to do in order to be thought of a Top 5 WR to wear Horns (Holt, Bruce, Ellard, Hirsch)

They are not hands down better than him? This is really pointless, but it's a slow work day so why not engage. I would put ODB behind AB right now. Tyreke Hill, Doug Baldwin, and Brandon Cooks belong in the same discussion as ODB?! Keenan Allen who finally put together a healthy season? Michael Thomas is good, but not on ODB's level. We've already seen the best of AJ Green, atleast while Dalton is his still his QB. Mike Evans I like to join my top 5, but he's not better than ODB. And check my quote, I said ODB CAN BE top 5 of all time. He is that talented. Only WR's that had more TD's than him in their first 4 years were Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Lance Alworth. Through his 3 healthy season he's averaging 96 receptions, 1374 yards, and 11.6 TD's a season. Get outta here with anyone besides Antonio Brown. ODB is a generational talent whether you like him off the field or not.

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3 minutes ago, JonStark said:

how would you rank the top 5?

Taking into the rest of what comes along with OBJ does factor in. But he is a WR, and alot of those guys have been like that. I actually like the antics on the sidelines, shows me he cares. I dont like the talk about Football not being fun anymore, or the terrible decisions of being video taped by people? Because availability is also an ability, and he is walking a fine line (between the injuries and off field issues) when it comes to availability.

  1. Antonio Brown
  2. Julio Jones
  3. DeAndre Hopkins
  4. Michael Thomas
  5. Keenan Allen
  6. A.J Green
  7. Odell Beckham Jr
  8. Mike Evans
  9. Doug Baldwin
  10. Demaryius Thomas

Thats how I would rank my Top 10 right now. Because like it or not, OBJ is coming off an injury, and it knocks him down a few pegs. Allen was down a bunch the past few years, and now that he is healthy he is back up there for me, and even now I have him behind Thomas just due to the injury questions. If OBJ didnt have a major injury he is coming off of, he is Probably #5

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7 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Taking into the rest of what comes along with OBJ does factor in. But he is a WR, and alot of those guys have been like that. I actually like the antics on the sidelines, shows me he cares. I dont like the talk about Football not being fun anymore, or the terrible decisions of being video taped by people? Because availability is also an ability, and he is walking a fine line (between the injuries and off field issues) when it comes to availability.

  1. Antonio Brown
  2. Julio Jones
  3. DeAndre Hopkins
  4. Michael Thomas
  5. Keenan Allen
  6. A.J Green
  7. Odell Beckham Jr
  8. Mike Evans
  9. Doug Baldwin
  10. Demaryius Thomas

Thats how I would rank my Top 10 right now. Because like it or not, OBJ is coming off an injury, and it knocks him down a few pegs. Allen was down a bunch the past few years, and now that he is healthy he is back up there for me, and even now I have him behind Thomas just due to the injury questions. If OBJ didnt have a major injury he is coming off of, he is Probably #5

I still think Larry Fitz is STILL better than half those on that list...Id also take Devonte Adams over D. Thomas too

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4 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Taking into the rest of what comes along with OBJ does factor in. But he is a WR, and alot of those guys have been like that. I actually like the antics on the sidelines, shows me he cares. I dont like the talk about Football not being fun anymore, or the terrible decisions of being video taped by people? Because availability is also an ability, and he is walking a fine line (between the injuries and off field issues) when it comes to availability.

  1. Antonio Brown
  2. Julio Jones
  3. DeAndre Hopkins
  4. Michael Thomas
  5. Keenan Allen
  6. A.J Green
  7. Odell Beckham Jr
  8. Mike Evans
  9. Doug Baldwin
  10. Demaryius Thomas

Thats how I would rank my Top 10 right now. Because like it or not, OBJ is coming off an injury, and it knocks him down a few pegs. Allen was down a bunch the past few years, and now that he is healthy he is back up there for me, and even now I have him behind Thomas just due to the injury questions. If OBJ didnt have a major injury he is coming off of, he is Probably #5

So Michael Thomas has worse stats and a better QB/run game than ODB, but is ranked higher? Makes sense to me. You mention coming off an injury slides ODB, but Keenan Allen puts together ONE healthy season and he's better than ODB with better QB/Run game? No that makes sense too. Oh and in his bounce back season he only had 6 TD's lol Like I said, arguments can be made for AB, Julio, and Deandre, but ODB as anything less than 4 is just astonishing to me. Just out of curiosity, who are your top 5 RB's? I gotta get a feel for what kind of evaluator you are if stats don't matter lol

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5 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

So Michael Thomas has worse stats and a better QB/run game than ODB, but is ranked higher? Makes sense to me. You mention coming off an injury slides ODB, but Keenan Allen puts together ONE healthy season and he's better than ODB with better QB/Run game? No that makes sense too. Oh and in his bounce back season he only had 6 TD's lol Like I said, arguments can be made for AB, Julio, and Deandre, but ODB as anything less than 4 is just astonishing to me. Just out of curiosity, who are your top 5 RB's? I gotta get a feel for what kind of evaluator you are if stats don't matter lol

Since when does the Quality of QB or Run Game have any impact on how talented a receiver you are? Clearly you are just looking at stats, because that is the only thing you are talking about. When it comes to talent, those guys are all in the same discussion, 

And yes, to talk the only think you look at, Ill take my 100 catches at 14 yards per clip from Keenan Allen, thats Top WR caliber right there

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2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Since when does the Quality of QB or Run Game have any impact on how talented a receiver you are? Clearly you are just looking at stats, because that is the only thing you are talking about. When it comes to talent, those guys are all in the same discussion, 

And yes, to talk the only think you look at, Ill take my 100 catches at 14 yards per clip from Keenan Allen, thats Top WR caliber right there

"Because availability is also an ability, and he is walking a fine line (between the injuries and off field issues) when it comes to availability. "

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1 minute ago, BStanRamFan said:

"Because availability is also an ability, and he is walking a fine line (between the injuries and off field issues) when it comes to availability. "

How many games did Keenan Allen miss in 2017? Sorry remind me please? And then how many did Odell miss? Im pretty sure theres a bit of a gap

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10 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

How many games did Keenan Allen miss in 2017? Sorry remind me please? And then how many did Odell miss? Im pretty sure theres a bit of a gap

I'm also curious as to what off field issues Keenan Allen has had that made him unavailable?  Or maybe I missed something.  But KA has been a model citizen.

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1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Yea, lets all just stop living in Reality, its just easier that way isnt it?

There is no way, in a Salary Cap NFL, that we can keep Jared Goff, Aaron Donald, Odell Beckham Jr, Todd Gurley, Marcus Peters and LaMarcus Joyner all on their second contracts in the next 2 years. That is what we are talking about. That is not doable. ESPECIALLY when we have very few Top 100 picks to supplement the rest of the roster.

Sure it would be a fun couple of years, but it would be a ROUGH 3 years after that.

Overthecap projects the Rams to have 94m in cap space in 2019 which is 2nd most in the NFL. In 2020 it is projected the Rams to have 129m in cap space which is the most in the NFL. We dont know that Goff and Gurley will break the bank. They could take team friendly deals just to keep the team entact. What if OBJ gets traded to the Rams and instead of asking for 20m, he will just take 18m (still the highest paid WR in the NFL), but take a few millions less to help the Rams have cap flexibility to keep the Rams team entact. Im not saying that will happen but lets not assume everyone will break the bank on the Rams. NRC took less to stay with the team. Suh took less to join the team. From what I read, Snead would front load the contracts of Donald and OBJ just to fit them in and still be able to take care of Gurley and Goff when their time comes. Not to mention guys like Brockers might be willing to restructure his deal to give the team cap flexibility. So again we just cant assume. Demoff is great at managing the cap. Snead is a great contract negotiator. Snead learned from the best in Dimitroff in Atlanta who came from the Patriots helping them start building the dynasty they have today. Dimitroff has built a great team in Atlanta. So Snead has learned from the best and took his knowledge and skills over to the Rams and helping them do the same. I trust in whatever he decides to do because he understands the ramifications in not putting this team long term in a bad situation.

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1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Yea, lets all just stop living in Reality, its just easier that way isnt it?

There is no way, in a Salary Cap NFL, that we can keep Jared Goff, Aaron Donald, Odell Beckham Jr, Todd Gurley, Marcus Peters and LaMarcus Joyner all on their second contracts in the next 2 years. That is what we are talking about. That is not doable. ESPECIALLY when we have very few Top 100 picks to supplement the rest of the roster.

Sure it would be a fun couple of years, but it would be a ROUGH 3 years after that.

Overthecap projects the Rams to have 94m in cap space in 2019 which is 2nd most in the NFL. In 2020 it is projected the Rams to have 129m in cap space which is the most in the NFL. We dont know that Goff and Gurley will break the bank. They could take team friendly deals just to keep the team entact. What if OBJ gets traded to the Rams and instead of asking for 20m, he will just take 18m (still the highest paid WR in the NFL), but take a few millions less to help the Rams have cap flexibility to keep the Rams team entact. Im not saying that will happen but lets not assume everyone will break the bank on the Rams. NRC took less to stay with the team. Suh took less to join the team. From what I read, Snead would front load the contracts of Donald and OBJ just to fit them in and still be able to take care of Gurley and Goff when their time comes. Not to mention guys like Brockers might be willing to restructure his deal to give the team cap flexibility. So again we just cant assume. Demoff is great at managing the cap. Snead is a great contract negotiator. Snead learned from the best in Dimitroff in Atlanta who came from the Patriots helping them start building the dynasty they have today. Dimitroff has built a great team in Atlanta. So Snead has learned from the best and took his knowledge and skills over to the Rams and helping them do the same. I trust in whatever he decides to do because he understands the ramifications in not putting this team long term in a bad situation.

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2 hours ago, JonStark said:

I do think they have a plan, but all of the numbers show that one of them will have to go. And if we somehow keep all 4, the rest of the team will be filled with vet minimums and an injury to one of them could kill us. Unless you're seeing something I'm not, but you can't just say "they have a plan, the wouldn't do it otherwise" without any evidence to back that up. Like I said before, if they go for OBJ, I'm going to trust them until they show me not to, I just don't see how it's physically possible to make those 4 contracts match and still field a competitive rest of the team.

Cooks never had blow ups on the sideline. Cooks never launched himself helmet first at a defender's head after the play was over. Cooks never got into a brawl in the middle of a game. OBJ loses his cool, plain and simple. A lot. Much like Peters, but Peters himself has said that he knows he needs to get better at that. OBJ has done nothing to make me think he's maturing in any way or working towards fixing that.

And he HAS gotten in trouble off of the field. Just because a punishment hasn't been given out for that hotel room video, doesn't mean it's not going to happen. And even if it doesn't, it still shows where his head is at. What is he doing in a room with hard drugs in the first place?

I understand the idea of getting one of the most talented WR in the league is intriguing and flashy, but it just doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't make sense financially. It doesn't make sense compensation wise. It doesn't make sense attitude-wise. No one knows whether or not his attitude could change. It could, and he could go on to become the great Rams WR of all time. Or it could not change and he could severely damage what we have in place and even affect Goff's progression. I would rather keep our picks, keep our cap reasonable, and have a team with great players from top to bottom than a handful of stars and guys off the street.

I see your point about OBJ, but in regards to Cooks he didnt want to be there so the Saints didnt sign him to a long term deal because eventually it wouldve been a distraction. OBJ is in a big media market on a team that has no structure. Had OBJ been on the Saints, his antics wouldnt nearly be as big of an issue as it is with the Giants. No way Peyton and Brees would allow that. With the Giants, they dont have a Peyton or Brees to pull OBJ to the side and say chill. I follow the LSU football team closely and have friends who are close to the program and when OBJ was at LSU he didnt do anything like what he is doing with the Giants. For all I know he didnt even jay walk at LSU. The reason why is because LSU has structure. OBJ is a young dude that got money in the NFL in a media market city on a team that lacks leadership and structure. If he comes to LA I can feel good about OBJ being close to how he was at LSU than he is with the Giants. The Rams have real leadership and structure with McVay. Ill say it again, if the Rams continue to pursue OBJ, then they feel comfortable about everything people are questioning about him. If they had any hesitations, they wouldnt waste their time even making an offer to trade for him. Its one thing to do your due diligence and calling. Its another thing to actually say you are willing to give up the 23rd overall pick. So the Rams are serious and again if they had any questions about OBJ they would back off. If the Rams are fine with it then so am I.

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12 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

We dont know that Goff and Gurley will break the bank.

You are being naive. Did you see what Kirk Cousins just got?  How about Bradford? Chase Daniel has never started a game and just got $5m per year. If we get Goff on his next deal for anything less than $25m per (what Brees got) it will be a miracle. Actually, Im going to break these down, and then you all who think the cap is just this make-believe thing how this is going to work;

Player 2019 2020 2021
Total 113.75 99.75 106.75
Goff 9 17 23
Donald 18 19 20
Gurley 7 6.5 8.5
Beckham 17.5 18 18.5
Peters 5 13 14
Joyner 9.5 10 10.5
Whitworth 12.5 0 0
Brockers 10.75 0 0
Talib 8 0 0
Woods 5 6 8
Kupp 1 1.25 0
Everett 1.5 2 0
Ebukam 0.75 1 0
Johnson 0.75 1 0
Hekker 3.75 4 4.25
Zuerlein 2.5 0 0
McQuaide 1.25 1 0

 

Just take a quick look above, The totals so far are in bold. I couldnt even get to 20 players that would be locks to be on this roste for 2019 and we are already at $113m. And the contracts I gave those Top 6 guys were modest at best (that would still hammer us on the back end). Assuming a likely 6-7% bump in the Cap, that leaves us like $65-66m to sign 36 more players. Including at the very least 8 more starters, which include 4 Offensive Lineman (dont think we are paying Sullivan that high year 2), almost an entire LB Corps (doubt we are paying Barron 9m next year) and a NT. But even if we can spin it for 2019 and get enough depth with the lack of Draft picks we have (would have to trade away atleast another Top 100 picks for Beckham), lets take a look at 2020. 

There we would have only like 13 guys under contact at this point, who account for $100m against the cap, So even if we get another Cap jump to 190m, thats only 90m for 41 more players. And if we some how made it that far, we would then have only have 8 guys signed for 2021, who account for almost $107m. Not even 10 guys accounting for over HALF of what the cap would be.

So yes, you could sign those guys, but the rest of your team would be absolute garbage. I dont know why we are talking about this anyway, its futile because the Giants arent trading him anyway. They dont have to, they would be stupid to. They have him Under control for basically 4 more seasons.

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