Rams 2018 offseason

[jjab360]

You guys are getting really worked up over this lol. If we can't make it work financially, then we won't trade for him. If we can, (obviously there would be some sacrifices) then we will, or at least we will try.

 

Fact is they have clearly had some initial discussions with the Giants which makes me think they think they can, so I'll trust their judgement on this one.

 

As a player, I think he'd be a really good fit in McVay's offense. Probably the best fit at the position in the entire league, and that's what's most important to me as a fan.

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

You are being naive. Did you see what Kirk Cousins just got?  How about Bradford? Chase Daniel has never started a game and just got $5m per year. If we get Goff on his next deal for anything less than $25m per (what Brees got) it will be a miracle. Actually, Im going to break these down, and then you all who think the cap is just this make-believe thing how this is going to work;

Player	2019	2020	2021
Total	113.75	99.75	106.75
Goff	9	17	23
Donald	18	19	20
Gurley	7	6.5	8.5
Beckham	17.5	18	18.5
Peters	5	13	14
Joyner	9.5	10	10.5
Whitworth	12.5	0	0
Brockers	10.75	0	0
Talib	8	0	0
Woods	5	6	8
Kupp	1	1.25	0
Everett	1.5	2	0
Ebukam	0.75	1	0
Johnson	0.75	1	0
Hekker	3.75	4	4.25
Zuerlein	2.5	0	0
McQuaide	1.25	1	0

 

Just take a quick look above, The totals so far are in bold. I couldnt even get to 20 players that would be locks to be on this roste for 2019 and we are already at $113m. And the contracts I gave those Top 6 guys were modest at best (that would still hammer us on the back end). Assuming a likely 6-7% bump in the Cap, that leaves us like $65-66m to sign 36 more players. Including at the very least 8 more starters, which include 4 Offensive Lineman (dont think we are paying Sullivan that high year 2), almost an entire LB Corps (doubt we are paying Barron 9m next year) and a NT. But even if we can spin it for 2019 and get enough depth with the lack of Draft picks we have (would have to trade away atleast another Top 100 picks for Beckham), lets take a look at 2020. 

There we would have only like 13 guys under contact at this point, who account for $100m against the cap, So even if we get another Cap jump to 190m, thats only 90m for 41 more players. And if we some how made it that far, we would then have only have 8 guys signed for 2021, who account for almost $107m. Not even 10 guys accounting for over HALF of what the cap would be.

So yes, you could sign those guys, but the rest of your team would be absolute garbage. I dont know why we are talking about this anyway, its futile because the Giants arent trading him anyway. They dont have to, they would be stupid to. They have him Under control for basically 4 more seasons.

I think the Giants would be stupid to trade him but same could be said about Peters too. The Chiefs had him for cheap for 2yrs but they didn’t want the headache. So the Giants should keep OBJ but as this offseason has shown, anything can happen to anyone.

Also Im not naive. I do understand what it will take to pay the players. All I’ve been saying from the start is Snead understands the core he has. Heck he drafted them lol. Why would he invest in OBJ if he didn’t know or have a plan short and long term for guys like Gurley and Goff? Donald is already taken care of. There is a timeline for him as it is understood by him, his agent, and Snead. Only thing left is for him to put pen to paper. So again was fans can discuss what the Rams are capable and not capable of but these guys know what they are doing. If they didn’t I promise you they wouldn’t be going down this road of trying to acquire OBJ.

[JonStark]

2 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

I see your point about OBJ, but in regards to Cooks he didnt want to be there so the Saints didnt sign him to a long term deal because eventually it wouldve been a distraction. OBJ is in a big media market on a team that has no structure. Had OBJ been on the Saints, his antics wouldnt nearly be as big of an issue as it is with the Giants. No way Peyton and Brees would allow that. With the Giants, they dont have a Peyton or Brees to pull OBJ to the side and say chill. I follow the LSU football team closely and have friends who are close to the program and when OBJ was at LSU he didnt do anything like what he is doing with the Giants. For all I know he didnt even jay walk at LSU. The reason why is because LSU has structure. OBJ is a young dude that got money in the NFL in a media market city on a team that lacks leadership and structure. If he comes to LA I can feel good about OBJ being close to how he was at LSU than he is with the Giants. The Rams have real leadership and structure with McVay. Ill say it again, if the Rams continue to pursue OBJ, then they feel comfortable about everything people are questioning about him. If they had any hesitations, they wouldnt waste their time even making an offer to trade for him. Its one thing to do your due diligence and calling. Its another thing to actually say you are willing to give up the 23rd overall pick. So the Rams are serious and again if they had any questions about OBJ they would back off. If the Rams are fine with it then so am I.

I get what you’re saying and can respect your opinion, but that’s all you’re given. You don’t THINK Mcvay/Snead would part with Goff or Gurley. You don’t THINK OBJ would be a problem. I can’t argue that because we won’t know until it actually happens, but numbers don’t lie. It is not possible to fit everyone in. If we pay top contracts to Goff, Gurley, OBJ, and Donald (even if they take a little less) what about guys like:

Joyner

Peters

Brockers

Johnson

Saffold

Brown

Havenstein

Everrett

Kupp

Woods

And that’s not even mentioning the holes we would have at LT, NT, LB. We wont have many day 1/2 picks to fill all of those holes and no money to attract free agents. Relying strictly on being a contender in LA will have us being outbid by a ton of teams, especially when we have nothing to work with. I think you’re a little too close to LSU to be honest and just want to see your boy in horns. Nothing wrong with that (if we didn’t have Gurley, I’d honestly probably be wanting to sell the farm for Saquon) but I think it’s clouding your judgement on the actual numbers and long term stability.  It’s just not gonna work with all of the guys we have on the squad. 

[StLunatic88]

16 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

I think the Giants would be stupid to trade him but same could be said about Peters too. The Chiefs had him for cheap for 2yrs but they didn’t want the headache. So the Giants should keep OBJ but as this offseason has shown, anything can happen to anyone.

Also Im not naive. I do understand what it will take to pay the players. All I’ve been saying from the start is Snead understands the core he has. Heck he drafted them lol. Why would he invest in OBJ if he didn’t know or have a plan short and long term for guys like Gurley and Goff? Donald is already taken care of. There is a timeline for him as it is understood by him, his agent, and Snead. Only thing left is for him to put pen to paper. So again was fans can discuss what the Rams are capable and not capable of but these guys know what they are doing. If they didn’t I promise you they wouldn’t be going down this road of trying to acquire OBJ.

I’m not saying that Snead doesn’t have a plan. But it’s the some of you in here that continue to insist that said plan includes keeping all 6 of the guys we have been talking about. THAT just isn’t possible to do and make a complete competitive roster. If we would Trade for OBJ, we would be losing atleast one, probably two of those guys in the next year or two. 

It could be Joyner and Gurley, it could be Peters and Joyner. Heck it could be Beckham (look at the Sammy situation). But you can not pay all of those guys Top 1–2 contracts for their position and still get the rest of the roster even average. 

Land im saying I’d like to try and pay the 5 guys we have, hang onto our draft picks, and build the super bowl contender rather than maybe 5 years of OBJ and the contract he would cost while losing essentially 4 players (likely all starters) and essentially 18 seasons of those guys

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Taking into the rest of what comes along with OBJ does factor in. But he is a WR, and alot of those guys have been like that. I actually like the antics on the sidelines, shows me he cares. I dont like the talk about Football not being fun anymore, or the terrible decisions of being video taped by people? Because availability is also an ability, and he is walking a fine line (between the injuries and off field issues) when it comes to availability.

1. Antonio Brown
2. Julio Jones
3. DeAndre Hopkins
4. Michael Thomas
5. Keenan Allen
6. A.J Green
7. Odell Beckham Jr
8. Mike Evans
9. Doug Baldwin
10. Demaryius Thomas

Thats how I would rank my Top 10 right now. Because like it or not, OBJ is coming off an injury, and it knocks him down a few pegs. Allen was down a bunch the past few years, and now that he is healthy he is back up there for me, and even now I have him behind Thomas just due to the injury questions. If OBJ didnt have a major injury he is coming off of, he is Probably #5

Duuuuude, c'mon. OBJ is no worse than 4th. He probably should be 3rd.(and I won't get into my other qualms)

[BStanRamFan]

17 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

How many games did Keenan Allen miss in 2017? Sorry remind me please? And then how many did Odell miss? Im pretty sure theres a bit of a gap

ODB played 4 games last year. It was his first major injury. The previous 3 years he went 16/16, 15/15, and 12 his rookie year.

Keenan Allen played 9 games over the 2015 and 2016 seasons and strained his PCL in 2012 which made him miss the combine as well. If youre entire argument is based on "talent" then Josh Gordon is number on that list. But hes had off the field issue that has made him unavailable. Keenan Allen has had injuries that has made him unavailable 2 of his first 5 years vs ODB that's been injured 1 of his first 4.

17 hours ago, The LBC said:

I'm also curious as to what off field issues Keenan Allen has had that made him unavailable?  Or maybe I missed something.  But KA has been a model citizen.

He's never had any off the field issues to my knowledge. Lunatic was saying that availability is an ability so ODB gets bumped down, but somehow Keenan Allen is ranked higher in his eyes? I also underlined the injury part when i re-quoted him.

[NVRamsFan]

1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

ODB played 4 games last year. It was his first major injury. The previous 3 years he went 16/16, 15/15, and 12 his rookie year.

Said it on another forum and I'll say it here. When we traded for Watkins complaint #1 and comment #1 from other fan bases was he was injury prone. Yet in the same 4 years he's played more games than OBJ. You can write off one year if you want that's cherry picking facts and totally disingenuous but go ahead. The fact remains he's averaged less than 12 games played a year. He also may have not missed time those other years but he's always been dinged up with soft tissue issues and those add up. 

 

If you criticized Watkins not doing the same for OBJ missing time is just lying to ourselves. 

 

That said trading for this guy and paying him what he wants and what the Giants wants is one of the worst decisions this front office could make. The sooner this dies down and we can move on the better IMO.

[BStanRamFan]

1 hour ago, NVRamsFan said:

Said it on another forum and I'll say it here. When we traded for Watkins complaint #1 and comment #1 from other fan bases was he was injury prone. Yet in the same 4 years he's played more games than OBJ. You can write off one year if you want that's cherry picking facts and totally disingenuous but go ahead. The fact remains he's averaged less than 12 games played a year. He also may have not missed time those other years but he's always been dinged up with soft tissue issues and those add up. 

 

If you criticized Watkins not doing the same for OBJ missing time is just lying to ourselves. 

 

That said trading for this guy and paying him what he wants and what the Giants wants is one of the worst decisions this front office could make. The sooner this dies down and we can move on the better IMO.

Being injured one year many games vs a few games multiple years I believe are two completely different things, so using "average games" as an argument is foolish. It does not paint the correct picture.  Also, I never criticized Watkins for his injury issues, I thought it was a great trade. And its football, everyone is dinged up on a weekly basis. ODB playing through that should speak to his character in a positive light since he catches so much flack for the kicking net and tantrums.

 

Depending on the compensation, this front office should make this trade. He is Elite and at a position of need. Rarely do these players become available heading into their prime, but I see this as very similar to Marcus Peters. Elite talent on rookie deal with some slight off field issues, but nothing substantial. If Snead and McVay think it is worth pursuing, then it is. They are smarter and know more than everyone on this board lol Everyone gets an opinion though. That's the point of the forum.

[NVRamsFan]

9 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Being injured one year many games vs a few games multiple years I believe are two completely different things, so using "average games" as an argument is foolish. It does not paint the correct picture.  Also, I never criticized Watkins for his injury issues, I thought it was a great trade. And its football, everyone is dinged up on a weekly basis. ODB playing through that should speak to his character in a positive light since he catches so much flack for the kicking net and tantrums.

In four years Sammy Watkins has played every game twice, if you include this year where the coaches held out all starters week 17. In four years OBJ has played all games once. There is no debate the injury argument is the same for both. It's not rocket science, they both have a similar injury history and to criticize OBJ for injuries is not being foolish or dishonest. It may not paint the picture you envision but it is simply reality.

 

As for being able to pay him I'm sorry but it simply cannot happen on the level that he wants and being able to extend AD this year is now even less likely. This isn't baseball where you can spend whatever you want there is a cap and you have to be under that. We cannot and should not trade for OBJ. He's a great player sure but it's not as simple as some are trying to make it out to be.

 

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/29/nfl-los-angeles-rams-ndamukong-suh-salary-cap-contract-fully-guaranteed/

 

Quote

So really, the Rams are down to about $2.5 million in cap space. It doesn’t take a mathematician to know that’s not much money, especially with Los Angeles still needing to pay its rookie class in the coming months.

 

[BStanRamFan]

1 hour ago, NVRamsFan said:

In four years Sammy Watkins has played every game twice, if you include this year where the coaches held out all starters week 17. In four years OBJ has played all games once. There is no debate the injury argument is the same for both. It's not rocket science, they both have a similar injury history and to criticize OBJ for injuries is not being foolish or dishonest. It may not paint the picture you envision but it is simply reality.

 

As for being able to pay him I'm sorry but it simply cannot happen on the level that he wants and being able to extend AD this year is now even less likely. This isn't baseball where you can spend whatever you want there is a cap and you have to be under that. We cannot and should not trade for OBJ. He's a great player sure but it's not as simple as some are trying to make it out to be.

 

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/29/nfl-los-angeles-rams-ndamukong-suh-salary-cap-contract-fully-guaranteed/

 

 

ODB missed one game in 2015 due to suspension because of his altercation with Norman. That was not injury related. So he 15/15 and in 2016 16/16. So in 4 years, he played every game he could in relation to injuries, twice. Rookie year he had a hamstring injury in camp and they decided not to rush him back as a rookie(smart play) and he missed the first 4 games. 12/12 rest of that year. And obviously what happened last year was injury related. Sammy Watkins injury history consists of the following: Ankle Sprain caused him to miss the Chic Fil A bowl in 2012. Rib Bruise missed 2.5 preseason games. Hip Tear in 2014 offseason. Thigh strain missed 3 preseason games in 2015. Calf strain missed 2 regular season games in 2015. Ankle sprain missed 2 more games in 2015. Foot Fracture missed 8 games in 2016. Now Im not saying missing preseason games is significant, but I want to point out the laundry list of injuries. Vs Beckham who tried playing through an ankle injury (played a few games) and then they shut him down the rest of the season for surgery. Feels more of an isolated incident compared to Sammy Watkins. Perception is reality. Watkins is perceived as a injury plagued player. ODB does not have that perception.

 

Regarding the cap situation, yeah it would be tight and require us to hit on some late round rookies the next few years (which is possible given our coaching staff). Also, we would need to bring in  some veteran FA's on cheap contacts (which is also possible given the culture we are building and gaining respect around the league). I am not a capologist, but I'm sure we can prorate some deals, give large signing bonuses to offset the cap hit, and rework some deals. I trust Snead. Also, we might have to reprioritize who we value internally. Donald, Peters, Goff would be my top. Then Beckham, Joyner, Gurley. Sadly, Gurley would be the one who becomes expendable in this scenario because RB is a devalued position even though he is top 5 in the league.  

[chris00cm]

Janis to the Browns. Expletive. Their best move of the off-season.

[Dr LBC]

1 hour ago, chris00cm said:

Janis to the Browns. Expletive. Their best move of the off-season.

Jeff Janis is still a thing?  Dude had the opportunities to break out on the Packers (with Rodgers) and never did.

[Car_Ramrod]

The Browns could trade for obj and they'd still be the same old Browns. No qb, no stability and no accountability.

 

Such a loyal fan base though.

[jrry32]

13 hours ago, NVRamsFan said:

In four years Sammy Watkins has played every game twice, if you include this year where the coaches held out all starters week 17. In four years OBJ has played all games once. There is no debate the injury argument is the same for both. It's not rocket science, they both have a similar injury history and to criticize OBJ for injuries is not being foolish or dishonest. It may not paint the picture you envision but it is simply reality.

 

As for being able to pay him I'm sorry but it simply cannot happen on the level that he wants and being able to extend AD this year is now even less likely. This isn't baseball where you can spend whatever you want there is a cap and you have to be under that. We cannot and should not trade for OBJ. He's a great player sure but it's not as simple as some are trying to make it out to be.

 

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/29/nfl-los-angeles-rams-ndamukong-suh-salary-cap-contract-fully-guaranteed/

 

 

I'll trust the people who do it for a living over those making guesses. Especially when said people have proven they know what they're doing.

6 minutes ago, Car_Ramrod said:

The Browns could trade for obj and they'd still be the same old Browns. No qb, no stability and no accountability.

 

Such a loyal fan base though.

Browns have a QB now. They might even have two in a couple months.

[NVRamsFan]

7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I'll trust the people who do it for a living over those making guesses. Especially when said people have proven they know what they're doing.

I'll trust them too. But when you look at the numbers presented by two normally very reliable websites that we've been using for years they present a number that shows us without a lot of cap space. We racked up about $8 million in dead cap. Tagged Joyner for $10.6 million. Traded for Talib and Peters adding $12.7 million. Traded away Quinn and Tree clearing up about what we paid the 2 corners at $13 million. Resigned Sully, Easley, and a couple RFA tenders and signed Shields and Wilson for another $2 million. That approximately $50 million wasn't going to last for ever. Cap is tight whether people want to admit it or not. We'll see how it turns out but Demoff has generally kept us going into a season with about $5 million in his tenure to have money for injury signings and a cushion.