Is the Qb situation good enough?

[champ11]

4 minutes ago, germ-x said:

The accuracy is definitely an issue.  The Senior Bowl will be big for Allen and Denver gets to coach him there, which is great.

The thing with Allen and why even after a down year he is still regarded as a potential #1 overall pick is the physical talent.  He’s probably the most physically gifted QB to enter the draft since Andrew Luck.  

i'm good on drafting a guy in the top 5 that has never played good football. especially with our track record on development and OL. would be an iconic Browns move though 

[jsthomp2007]

53 minutes ago, germ-x said:

The accuracy is definitely an issue.  The Senior Bowl will be big for Allen and Denver gets to coach him there, which is great.

The thing with Allen and why even after a down year he is still regarded as a potential #1 overall pick is the physical talent.  He’s probably the most physically gifted QB to enter the draft since Andrew Luck.  

I think Wentz was pretty physically gifted.  Man...what it would be to be in a position to get that guy...look at what a franchise QB can do...go from nothing to NFC Championship Game. 

[AKRNA]

56 minutes ago, champ11 said:

i'm good on drafting a guy in the top 5 that has never played good football. especially with our track record on development and OL. would be an iconic Browns move though 

Is there a "sarcasm" emoji?

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, champ11 said:

i'm good on drafting a guy in the top 5 that has never played good football. especially with our track record on development and OL. would be an iconic Browns move though 

Allen played great football in 2016.  Lost literally all of his offensive weapons and some of the offensive line and was forced to try and carry a terrible Wyoming team.

I need to watch him.  As I said, the completion percentage looks concerning, but doesn’t always tell the entire story.

Up until 15 years ago, Allen’s 56.3 completion percentage wouldn’t have alarmed or turned anyone away.  There have been numerous high draft picks and terrific NFL QBs with similar numbers.  McNabb, Bledsoe, Collins, George, Marino, Favre, just to name a few.

Who knows he may suck, I need to watch more than highlights, but I still haven’t written him off as potentially being the best QB in this draft.

[champ11]

16 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Allen played great football in 2016.  Lost literally all of his offensive weapons and some of the offensive line and was forced to try and carry a terrible Wyoming team.

I need to watch him.  As I said, the completion percentage looks concerning, but doesn’t always tell the entire story.

Up until 15 years ago, Allen’s 56.3 completion percentage wouldn’t have alarmed or turned anyone away.  There have been numerous high draft picks and terrific NFL QBs with similar numbers.  McNabb, Bledsoe, Collins, George, Marino, Favre, just to name a few.

Who knows he may suck, I need to watch more than highlights, but I still haven’t written him off as potentially being the best QB in this draft.

I hear you. He could turn out to be a total stud. But considering our position and track record I think it would be pretty wild to consider him in the top 5. I haven't seen too much, but I really haven't liked what I've seen. At this point I'm leaning towards taking a QB in the second round if we can't get Rosen or Darnold. We'll see though, my opinions aren't totally formed 

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

He’s probably the most physically gifted QB to enter the draft since Andrew Luck.  

Logan Thomas was arguably the most physically gifted QB prospect ever if were basing things only on the underwear Olympics. 6'06, 250lbs, 4.54 40, cannon arm. Those measurable blow Allen out of the water. And he was a putrid NFL QB.

There are quite a few similarities' between Logan Thomas and Josh Allen, some good (Elite physicals) some terrifying (Accuracy issues).

[champ11]

The advanced accuracy stats aint good either

[The Helicopter]

4 minutes ago, champ11 said:

...at this point I'm leaning towards taking a QB in the second round...

Due to supply and demand economics, QB's are going to fly off the board this year. Get one while they're HoT!

[germ-x]

7 minutes ago, champ11 said:

The advanced accuracy stats aint good either

Yeah, that’s why I’d like to watch.  Wyoming has nothing at the skill positions.  Again, not to see Allen was throwing great passes all game long, but it’s also possible that the lack of talent couldn’t get open or dropped difficult catches when covered.

[Broncofan]

The issue with Allen is that he's all projection and physical tools.   The durable QB skills are his most glaring weaknesses.  That's a major flag.

Contrast that to the guy he's always compared to as to why teams would consider him - Carson Wentz.   Wentz has a completely different scouting profile than Allen when you look at the actual QB skills - he was seen as a naturally accurate passer, with nice touch and anticipation, and could get through his reads reasonably quickly (but often only needed 2nd option). He was cited for bad footwork, not looking off safeties at times and  a deep ball that needed work, but most of all, complete uncertainty on how he'd fare at NFL speed given the competition he faced.   Wentz was already recognized to make the NFL throws when he threw guys open, and recognized to be accurate at the short-intermediate stuff (deep balls needed work).   Allen gets none of that, except Q marks across the board.

In case you think this is revisionist, look at the Combine profile for Wentz - http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259 & https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/04/14/nfl-draft-scouting-report-carson-wentz-north-dakota-state & https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pff-scouting-report-carson-wentz-qb-north-dakota-state.

For Wentz, realize those are reports from 2+ years ago, but read the reports.  Great arm.   Throws with anticipation.   Underrated accuracy in tight windows.   Can make the NFL throws (to throw guys open).   Keeps eyes up.   Major theme of concern is strength of competition, and some cite deep ball issues (which in Year 1 and part of Year 2, definitely the area he can still move forward on).     What you see is NONE of his actual throwing skills under question, mostly whether he can adapt to NFL system and speed given his NDSU background and fact he didn't have to get past his 2nd progression much.

Cut to Allen, and we see a lot of Q's raised on his anticipation, accuracy, pocket awareness, ability to get the ball in NFL windows - great physical traits, absolutely.  Great arm?  No doubt.   But the rest of the QB skills?  Not so much.

The sad part is if this was a 2nd/3rd round project pick, it would be hard to argue - but #5 overall?   It's a testament to how QB-starved the NFL is that teams have to make this call nowadays.   Personally, I don't think I could stomach it.  If CLE goes that route, Elway should do cartwheels - and likely have to get on the phone with INDY at #3 - because I'd guess about 3-4 other teams would look that way too.  

[germ-x]

30 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The issue with Allen is that he's all projection and physical tools.   The durable QB skills are his most glaring weaknesses.  That's a major flag.

Contrast that to the guy he's always compared to as to why teams would consider him - Carson Wentz.   Wentz has a completely different scouting profile than Allen when you look at the actual QB skills - he was seen as a naturally accurate passer, with nice touch and anticipation, and could get through his reads reasonably quickly (but often only needed 2nd option). He was cited for bad footwork, not looking off safeties at times and  a deep ball that needed work, but most of all, complete uncertainty on how he'd fare at NFL speed given the competition he faced.   Wentz was already recognized to make the NFL throws when he threw guys open, and recognized to be accurate at the short-intermediate stuff (deep balls needed work).   Allen gets none of that, except Q marks across the board.

In case you think this is revisionist, look at the Combine profile for Wentz - http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/carson-wentz?id=2555259 & https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/04/14/nfl-draft-scouting-report-carson-wentz-north-dakota-state & https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pff-scouting-report-carson-wentz-qb-north-dakota-state.

For Wentz, realize those are reports from 2+ years ago, but read the reports.  Great arm.   Throws with anticipation.   Underrated accuracy in tight windows.   Can make the NFL throws (to throw guys open).   Keeps eyes up.   Major theme of concern is strength of competition, and some cite deep ball issues (which in Year 1 and part of Year 2, definitely the area he can still move forward on).     What you see is NONE of his actual throwing skills under question, mostly whether he can adapt to NFL system and speed given his NDSU background and fact he didn't have to get past his 2nd progression much.

Cut to Allen, and we see a lot of Q's raised on his anticipation, accuracy, pocket awareness, ability to get the ball in NFL windows - great physical traits, absolutely.  Great arm?  No doubt.   But the rest of the QB skills?  Not so much.

The sad part is if this was a 2nd/3rd round project pick, it would be hard to argue - but #5 overall?   It's a testament to how QB-starved the NFL is that teams have to make this call nowadays.   Personally, I don't think I could stomach it.  If CLE goes that route, Elway should do cartwheels - and likely have to get on the phone with INDY at #3 - because I'd guess about 3-4 other teams would look that way too.  

Which is why I’m glad he entered the Senior Bowl.  It won’t be able to answer all of those questions, but we will be able to see him play with good talent against good competition.

Weird feeling, but I think he owns the Senior Bowl.

[jolly red giant]

If the Broncos are coaching Mayfield and Allen at the senior bowl - and they choose one of them at 1.5 - if they don't hit on a QB that can play as an NFL starter then Elway, the front office and the entire coaching staff should be sacked. You are not going to get a better chance at evaluating players for a long time again.

[AnAngryAmerican]

All the font being spilled here and elsewhere, the hours of radio and tv time, the countless hours or debate and discussion on QB draft prospects for the Broncos will all be moot when we sign Kirk  Cousins or trade with Mac’s Colts for Andrew Luck. 

A guy can hope ..... right?

[thebestever6]

57 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

All the font being spilled here and elsewhere, the hours of radio and tv time, the countless hours or debate and discussion on QB draft prospects for the Broncos will all be moot when we sign Kirk  Cousins or trade with Mac’s Colts for Andrew Luck. 

A guy can hope ..... right?

If we are discussing options which we are I'd say the Broncos most favorable moves would be as follows. Keep in mind the picture is still foggy. Take out the fact that I don't feel Cousins is a franchise qb. I also would think the Broncos feel somewhat the same way. He's gonna need a lot of help to win a title. And history and analytics show even with the best qbs making 20 mill or more with good teams it's hard to do.

Now a healthy Luck is a different story he is the white whale. I think he's Elways plan A. Now he'd have to check out medically.  Or Colts would have to take an incentive based package. Basically Luck would have to play a % of the snaps, or reach a yardage, td escalator. The thought process is Luck took a minimum talented team to an AFC title game I'd have to think Elway feels he can get him more talent than that team did. Also, Macdaniels has to be in love with Brissett to make that move.  

I think If Broncos don't land Luck drafting a qb will be the Broncos plan B. I don't know who that guy is but never underestimate a team wanting to shop for the groceries. Elway would look a lot better getting a guy and nailing the pick rather than opening up the piggy bank for Cousins.

1) Luck 5% chance

2a) qb high Darnold Rosen 20% chance

2b) trade down for a qb aquire extra picks in deep draft.  Get the guy plus other picks to hit on. Now acquiring a stopgap vet will be more likely to happen in this scenario. No guarantee a vet is aquired especially if playoff hopes are a long shot. I think they may just let the guy take his lumps. 35% chance

3) Kirk Cousins 30% chance 

4) a better stop gap vet and a second or third round qb prospect with a high upside.10% chance 

[1234567]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

All the font being spilled here and elsewhere, the hours of radio and tv time, the countless hours or debate and discussion on QB draft prospects for the Broncos will all be moot when we sign Kirk  Cousins or trade with Mac’s Colts for Andrew Luck. 

A guy can hope ..... right?

A Luck trade would be the ideal scenario for me.. IF he can get healthy again. Allen doesn't have the accuracy to throw receivers open. In today's NFL, that's a big problem and Rosen/Darnold will both be gone by pick #5.