thebestever6 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, 1234567 said: A Luck trade would be the ideal scenario for me.. IF he can get healthy again. Allen doesn't have the accuracy to throw receivers open. In today's NFL, that's a big problem and Rosen/Darnold will both be gone by pick #5. I'd rather gamble on Luck than sign Cousins who we still don't know will come without trading picks. I know the shoulder is a red flag. But Andrew Luck is a winner. He makes everyone on the team instantly better. He'd be the ideal face of the franchise for the next 5 to 10 years. With that being said there's still a price I wouldn't go above when trading for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 55 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I'd rather gamble on Luck than sign Cousins who we still don't know will come without trading picks. I know the shoulder is a red flag. But Andrew Luck is a winner. He makes everyone on the team instantly better. He'd be the ideal face of the franchise for the next 5 to 10 years. With that being said there's still a price I wouldn't go above when trading for him. We actually do know that Cousins won't cost picks. He's either getting tagged/extended by WAS or he hits the free market. Players not under contract can’t be traded. A tag that isn’t signed doesn’t allow a player to be traded - only after its signed can a trade be done. All that prior talk with Von being traded in 2016 while tagged but unsigned (and having not signed the tender) was working on that assumption - but that's incorrect, the player has to agree to sign. The deadline to extend a tag (franchise or transition) is March 6. The first day teams can trade a player under contract for 2018 is March 14. Normally WAS could just franchise tag him and take him out of play even at 34M but again Jay Gruden has already said WAS isn’t going there with a 1-year stopgap (which the franchise tag represents). Silly for them to give away that info but it’s out there and on record. So we know there's no franchise tag coming. A transition tag will only give the Redskins the right to match any long-term offer - but it won't cost any picks. Whether Cousins is worth signing for us at the salary he’d command and how it limits our ability to fix other areas is a legit point for discussion. Or if he’d even look to sign with us given other suitors. But Cousins won’t cost picks with the info that tagged players who don’t sign can’t be dealt and WAS’ position against a 1-year franchise tag. Let’s keep the scenarios straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Our only option is to screw McDaniels & the Colts over a 3rd time...we’re at 7 SB appearances and 3 SB wins w/former Colt QB’s...why stop now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Broncofan said: We actually do know that Cousins won't cost picks. He's either getting tagged/extended by WAS or he hits the free market. Players not under contract can’t be traded. A tag that isn’t signed doesn’t allow a player to be traded - only after its signed can a trade be done. All that prior talk with Von being traded in 2016 while tagged but unsigned (and having not signed the tender) was working on that assumption - but that's incorrect, the player has to agree to sign. The deadline to extend a tag (franchise or transition) is March 6. The first day teams can trade a player under contract for 2018 is March 14. Normally WAS could just franchise tag him and take him out of play even at 34M but again Jay Gruden has already said WAS isn’t going there with a 1-year stopgap (which the franchise tag represents). Silly for them to give away that info but it’s out there and on record. So we know there's no franchise tag coming. A transition tag will only give the Redskins the right to match any long-term offer - but it won't cost any picks. Whether Cousins is worth signing for us at the salary he’d command and how it limits our ability to fix other areas is a legit point for discussion. Or if he’d even look to sign with us given other suitors. But Cousins won’t cost picks with the info that tagged players who don’t sign can’t be dealt and WAS’ position against a 1-year franchise tag. Let’s keep the scenarios straight. Ok if they want to tag him and trade him how do they not have the leverage? He can't just leave. Wouldn't it be a Carson Palmer type deal and he'd just have to sit home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 37 minutes ago, The Helicopter said: Our only option is to screw McDaniels & the Colts over a 3rd time...we’re at 7 SB appearances and 3 SB wins w/former Colt QB’s...why stop now? It really makes so much sense I was thinking why did Mac take the Colts job. Is Ballard his guy or Brissett? I imagine a top 5 pick along with one or two more may be appealing to a coach. Possibly more appealing than the Browns job especially if you believed in Brissett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: It really makes so much sense I was thinking why did Mac take the Colts job. Is Ballard his guy or Brissett? I imagine a top 5 pick along with one or two more may be appealing to a coach. Possibly more appealing than the Browns job especially if you believed in Brissett. Throw in Alphonso Smith and I bet he couldn’t resist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 6 hours ago, thebestever6 said: Ok if they want to tag him and trade him how do they not have the leverage? He can't just leave. Wouldn't it be a Carson Palmer type deal and he'd just have to sit home? Jay Gruden has already said no more 1-year deals - either extend him or let him walk. Silly but he took away WAS's potential leverage completely. As for trading, again to repeat - WAS could trade him last year at the draft because Cousins signed the tender March 10th. Without signing it, Cousins can't be traded - if he's transition tagged, the CBA specifically makes this point clear - once a player is transition tagged, other teams can negotiate freely, with no ability of trade until a player has signed a deal (again, the whole notion of being under contract, which only happens once a player is signed). Here, with no franchise tag option, teams only have to wait for Cousins to hit the open market. And remember, teams can't trade until 8 days after the deadline to tag him either way has passed - so WAS can't execute a trade regardless - Cousins' has to sign any tag before being able to traded, so any crazy scenario of tampering, besides being improbable given the severe penalties at risk when a guy is about to hit the market, is negated by that simple fact. WAS' only play here is to extend him to a multi-year deal, or let him walk. Teams will wait them out with this knowledge, given their pitiful record of offers made to Cousins - they weren't even close in past negotiations, they weren't even in the same area code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 How anyone doesn't understand the Kirk situation despite Broncofan clearly and articulately laying it our is beyond me. The Cousins v Luck debate comes down to this: 1. Trade 1.05, possible more, for 28 year old Andrew Luck who has a serious, mysterious shoulder injury, has not played for a season plus and is owed 24.4M in 2018/19 2. Keep our picks, sign 29 year old, healthy, Kirk Cousins to a 28-30M per season deal. Its such an easy choice to me. Pay the healthy, slightly more expensive, slightly less talented QB and keep the draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Broncofan said: Jay Gruden has already said no more 1-year deals - either extend him or let him walk. Silly but he took away WAS's potential leverage completely. As for trading, again to repeat - WAS could trade him last year at the draft because Cousins signed the tender March 10th. Without signing it, Cousins can't be traded - if he's transition tagged, the CBA specifically makes this point clear - once a player is transition tagged, other teams can negotiate freely, with no ability of trade until a player has signed a deal (again, the whole notion of being under contract, which only happens once a player is signed). Here, with no franchise tag option, teams only have to wait for Cousins to hit the open market. And remember, teams can't trade until 8 days after the deadline to tag him either way has passed - so WAS can't execute a trade regardless - Cousins' has to sign any tag before being able to traded, so any crazy scenario of tampering, besides being improbable given the severe penalties at risk when a guy is about to hit the market, is negated by that simple fact. WAS' only play here is to extend him to a multi-year deal, or let him walk. Teams will wait them out with this knowledge, given their pitiful record of offers made to Cousins - they weren't even close in past negotiations, they weren't even in the same area code. I take what Jay Gruden says as a grain of salt. He's not the gm and the one making decisions. Not signing the tag and being a free man makes no sense bc more qbs would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 We need to just take Mayfield (or Darnold if he's there) at 5 and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I take what Jay Gruden says as a grain of salt. He's not the gm and the one making decisions. Not signing the tag and being a free man makes no sense bc more qbs would do that. The only QBs franchise tagged going back to 2007 include Kirk Cousins (twice), Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, and Matt Cassell. Kirk's situation is completely unique. Most QBs dont get tagged and when they do it's only to prevent them from hitting FA while they work on a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: How anyone doesn't understand the Kirk situation despite Broncofan clearly and articulately laying it our is beyond me. The Cousins v Luck debate comes down to this: 1. Trade 1.05, possible more, for 28 year old Andrew Luck who has a serious, mysterious shoulder injury, has not played for a season plus and is owed 24.4M in 2018/19 2. Keep our picks, sign 29 year old, healthy, Kirk Cousins to a 28-30M per season deal. Its such an easy choice to me. Pay the healthy, slightly more expensive, slightly less talented QB and keep the draft picks. Luck is a transcending talent. I have more faith he recovers than the type of roster we can have with Kirk Cousins. I think we'd need a Minnesota esque roster. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeDefense Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: Luck is a transcending talent. I have more faith he recovers than the type of roster we can have with Kirk Cousins. I think we'd need a Minnesota esque roster. It's that simple. Shoulder injuries are no joke, they are up there with hip and back injuries. I recall from a seminar that I attended for work, an orthopedist noted that majority of people by the age 30 have some sort of tear in their dominant shoulder from specific and/or cumulative trauma injuries. With that said, we are talking about a QB, who’s taken a pounding on that shoulder as well as thrown the ball using that shoulder all his life. His shoulder will not be the same. With him sitting out a whole season and potential another chunk of the upcoming season, I would not gamble on him especially if it meant dealing picks and taking on his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Quote Luck is a transcending talent. I have more faith he recovers than the type of roster we can have with Kirk Cousins. I don't deny that he is a very, very good QB. Transcendent talent? Meh. I have always found that he was repeatedly handed the torch from the older elite WB;s by the media, but could never quite carry it. I don't deny that Luck, at his best, is better than Cousins. But the gap isn't the 5th overall pick, even when healthy I would argue. Taking his injury into account, an injury that is tremendously scary upon research, and its just nuts to me that anyone would prefer him to Kirk. There is going to be a 4-6M difference in what Kirk makes and what Luck is paid in 2018. That's a downside to going w/ Cousins, but he is healthy and we can add a franchise level talent at 1.05 if we chose Kirk rather than chase Luck. And that's a lowball on Luck, IMO they would demand 1.05 and a future first rounder. You can keep living in a world where Cousins will cost draft picks and Luck is healthy but I just cant make the jump to that planet. To each his own though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, BroncoSojia said: We need to just take Mayfield (or Darnold if he's there) at 5 and be done with it. Both are humongous gambles. If they bust, and both have at least a fair chance of busting, it sets the franchise back three-plus years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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