Is the Qb situation good enough?

[paul-mac]

On 1/26/2018 at 12:32 AM, germ-x said:

I could see this playing a factor if Cousins doesn’t hit the market.  I said this a few years ago, though.  I never got on the Taylor hype.  He’s better than what we have, but he isn’t more than a stop gap.  I seriously hope Denver wouldn’t consider him as more than that.

 

I don't think, other than Cousins, Denver will consider any of the veteran QBs anything more than that. Taylor, Keenum, Alex Smith (unlikely but Andy Reid did trade a QB to a division rival before), Foles, Sam Bradford, Bridgewater etc. All these guys are upgrades on what we have and I think we will have a new starting calibre QB in free agency or a trade, but none of these guys will rule us out of drafting a QB at 5.

[jolly red giant]

1 hour ago, paul-mac said:

 

I don't think, other than Cousins, Denver will consider any of the veteran QBs anything more than that. Taylor, Keenum, Alex Smith (unlikely but Andy Reid did trade a QB to a division rival before), Foles, Sam Bradford, Bridgewater etc. All these guys are upgrades on what we have and I think we will have a new starting calibre QB in free agency or a trade, but none of these guys will rule us out of drafting a QB at 5.

I would think that any QB except Cousins almost guarantees a QB at 1.5 - especially if one of Darnold/Rosen falls to 5

[iLikeDefense]

13 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

My sources tell me Kirk Cousins will come down to Arizona and the Broncos. Arizona picks later than us and is way more desperate. Similar rosters and demises since 2015.

My source also says the loser will go after keenum. Keenum had an Alex Smith type renaissance. Number 2 in qbr lit it up and was efficient. Will be cheaper than Cousins and Smith.  

Your sources? Aka your gut?

[thebestever6]

Just now, iLikeDefense said:

Your sources? Aka your gut?

Yea Arizona just freed up 20 million from Palmer retiring. They have a franchise rb on a rookie deal, and a bunch on d with rookie deals. Plus their division is harder so a splash move is warranted.

[broncos67]

I'm actually growing more intrigued by Cousins if we can land him, specifically if we can pair him with Saquon Barkley. If we go the FA route, I still think Tyrod is in contention because of the obvious links between Kubiak and Tyrod, but also the fact that we pursued him before. I like the idea of Teddy Bridgewater, but I'm skeptical that he'll actually land here. 

To be honest, I'm actually hoping Denver tries trading with someone like Buffalo with their 2 first rounders. Getting those + next years first or second from them would be a huge help in restoring this team to success.

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

I'm actually growing more intrigued by Cousins if we can land him, specifically if we can pair him with Saquon Barkley. If we go the FA route, I still think Tyrod is in contention because of the obvious links between Kubiak and Tyrod, but also the fact that we pursued him before. I like the idea of Teddy Bridgewater, but I'm skeptical that he'll actually land here. 

To be honest, I'm actually hoping Denver tries trading with someone like Buffalo with their 2 first rounders. Getting those + next years first or second from them would be a huge help in restoring this team to success.

You know, I think Cousins is the smart move.  Doesn’t mean it’s the best move as I think one of Darnold, Rosen, Allen, and maybe even Mayfield ends up being a franchise QB.

But, if Denver wants to get relevant quickly, Cousins fills the QB need for the next 4-5 years. It also allows Denver to use #5 and the rest of their top picks on positions to solidify the rest of the roster.

Really, I think it comes down to the risk Elway is willing to take.  Cousins is the safer bet, but Denver may not be in a position like selecting at #5 to hit the lottery on a QB for quite sometime.

[jsthomp2007]

8 hours ago, germ-x said:

You know, I think Cousins is the smart move.  Doesn’t mean it’s the best move as I think one of Darnold, Rosen, Allen, and maybe even Mayfield ends up being a franchise QB.

But, if Denver wants to get relevant quickly, Cousins fills the QB need for the next 4-5 years. It also allows Denver to use #5 and the rest of their top picks on positions to solidify the rest of the roster.

Really, I think it comes down to the risk Elway is willing to take.  Cousins is the safer bet, but Denver may not be in a position like selecting at #5 to hit the lottery on a QB for quite sometime.

I think if Rosen falls, and he lands at #5 to the Broncos...wouldn't his game mirror Cousin's, at a lesser price?  The only think you don't get is that Cousin seems like a solid leader. 

[broncos67]

Maybe it's just because they weren't at the Senior Bowl, but Rosen seems to have fallen our of vogue. Darnold too, but to a lesser extent. Rosen is sort of antithetical to Allen, for example, but it's hard to argue he's not the best QB prospect in the draft. He reminds me a lot of Jared Goff, and Goff is doing quite well with some competent coaching.

That said, going back to germ's post. Hypothetically, if we signed Cousins, and hit on our #5, and 2.40 picks with some big time contributors, what does that do to the team? I'd argue that puts us firmly back in the playoffs. 4-5 years of above average QB play can get you pretty far in this league. I don't love what Cousins would cost, and I'm still one who leans towards grooming and development of QBs, but until the Broncos demonstrate they are actually able to do that, they should spend the draft capital elsewhere.

Frankly, Denver should be spending premium picks on the defense. The coaching on that side of the ball appears to be decidedly better at maximizing talent. But would anyone really complain if we signed Cousins and then drafted Barkley/Hernandez, or Nelson/Michel? I honestly think that would put us squarely back in contention.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

But would anyone really complain if we signed Cousins and then drafted Barkley/Hernandez, or Nelson/Michel? I honestly think that would put us squarely back in contention.

This is exactly what I hope happens. Cousins/Barkley/Hernandez would get us into the playoffs overnight, and if Cousins and Barkley adjust quickly that we could be legitimate Super Bowl conetnders.

Sign Cousins, draft Hernandez R2 and take Barkley at 1.05 if available. If he isn't available, trade down w/ Buffalo and take Derrius Guice and BPA (Sticking w/ the idea of getting Kirk weapons, maybe target Courtland Sutton, he would really improve our red zone play)

[AKRNA]

I think it's more about the business/team model than a specific QB. It seems there are three basic models. #1 Draft and develop  a QB in house. That hasn't worked so well for us. I don't think Elway can afford another 1st rd miss on a QB either.

The 2nd would be along the PM mold, find a guy that can still play and try to get them on a short, reasonable contract. That has worked okay for us. Got us a ring. The 3rd is the Cousins route. Sign the best FA you can get for a long term 25+ million per year deal.

So far #3 hasn't worked for anyone. That doesn't mean it can't, there's a first time for everything. I just have a hard time seeing Elway head that direction. Personally I think we'll go with door #2 with a Taylor, Bridgewater .......................... whoever. Maybe find a guy in the middle rounds that they think they develop in a couple of years.

I don't really care which way they go. There's problems associated with all three methods. I'm just curious to find out which direction they choose.

 

[broncofan48]

10 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I think it's more about the business/team model than a specific QB. It seems there are three basic models. #1 Draft and develop  a QB in house. That hasn't worked so well for us. I don't think Elway can afford another 1st rd miss on a QB either.

The 2nd would be along the PM mold, find a guy that can still play and try to get them on a short, reasonable contract. That has worked okay for us. Got us a ring. The 3rd is the Cousins route. Sign the best FA you can get for a long term 25+ million per year deal.

So far #3 hasn't worked for anyone. That doesn't mean it can't, there's a first time for everything. I just have a hard time seeing Elway head that direction. Personally I think we'll go with door #2 with a Taylor, Bridgewater .......................... whoever. Maybe find a guy in the middle rounds that they think they develop in a couple of years.

I don't really care which way they go. There's problems associated with all three methods. I'm just curious to find out which direction they choose.

 

While not close to the same level of player, going Cousins is wayyyyy closer to PM than option #2 with Taylor or Bridgewater.  Peyton got a damn big contract coming off of neck surgery.

[AKRNA]

23 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

While not close to the same level of player, going Cousins is wayyyyy closer to PM than option #2 with Taylor or Bridgewater.  Peyton got a damn big contract coming off of neck surgery.

Yeah, but it was team friendly and short term. I doubt if Cousins signs any deal for under 6 years with lots of guarantees. That's the big difference. A 6 year 150+million dollar contract. That's quite a long term commitment. PM was basically a year to year thing.

Anyway, curious to see what they do.

[AnAngryAmerican]

5 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Maybe it's just because they weren't at the Senior Bowl, but Rosen seems to have fallen our of vogue. Darnold too, but to a lesser extent. Rosen is sort of antithetical to Allen, for example, but it's hard to argue he's not the best QB prospect in the draft. He reminds me a lot of Jared Goff, and Goff is doing quite well with some competent coaching.

That said, going back to germ's post. Hypothetically, if we signed Cousins, and hit on our #5, and 2.40 picks with some big time contributors, what does that do to the team? I'd argue that puts us firmly back in the playoffs. 4-5 years of above average QB play can get you pretty far in this league. I don't love what Cousins would cost, and I'm still one who leans towards grooming and development of QBs, but until the Broncos demonstrate they are actually able to do that, they should spend the draft capital elsewhere.

Frankly, Denver should be spending premium picks on the defense. The coaching on that side of the ball appears to be decidedly better at maximizing talent. But would anyone really complain if we signed Cousins and then drafted Barkley/Hernandez, or Nelson/Michel? I honestly think that would put us squarely back in contention.

I'm slowly but surely coming around to this line of thinking too. We still have a respectable defense, albeit not without some holes, and Cousins, a few low-tier free agents and some difference-makers in the draft seems the best route out of this hole. I just don't think we can gamble on any of these rookie QBs all of whom have red flags, a middle-tier veteran "bridge" QB is also a non-starter for me. 

[bMiller031]

19 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I'm slowly but surely coming around to this line of thinking too. We still have a respectable defense, albeit not without some holes, and Cousins, a few low-tier free agents and some difference-makers in the draft seems the best route out of this hole. I just don't think we can gamble on any of these rookie QBs all of whom have red flags, a middle-tier veteran "bridge" QB is also a non-starter for me. 

If we go w/ Cousins, I think a trade back from 1.5 is the move. With the NYJ at 1.6, the fifth pick is too valuable of a QB spot in this draft to justify not trading it. Maybe pick up an extra R1 and R2 to supplement Cousins? That could be a quick rebuild. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

6 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

If we go w/ Cousins, I think a trade back from 1.5 is the move. With the NYJ at 1.6, the fifth pick is too valuable of a QB spot in this draft to justify not trading it. Maybe pick up an extra R1 and R2 to supplement Cousins? That could be a quick rebuild. 

I think unless Barkley is on the board at #5 that would be the ideal move. I'd rather move a back a few spots and still land an elite talent, perhaps Nelson, and get an extra early-round pick for doing so.