Is the Qb situation good enough?

[jsthomp2007]

19 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

Have to think if Shurmur stays, he keeps Keenum. I think they'll let the other two test the open market.

Keenum certainly deserves it.  I wouldn't want anything to do with Bradford unless he can take the vet league minimum.  The most intriguing would be Bridgewater to me.  

[bMiller031]

5 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Keenum certainly deserves it.  I wouldn't want anything to do with Bradford unless he can take the vet league minimum.  The most intriguing would be Bridgewater to me.  

What's the case against Bridgewater? He seems like a GREAT fit for us. There is certainly a degree of risk involved - but it'd allow us to go BPA in free agency and the draft.

Bridgewater is a high ceiling-low floor guy- but its hard to imagine a better time than now to roll the dice with a guy like Bridgewater. He's a highly affordable 25 year old quarterback with great accuracy and instincts. 

[thebestever6]

28 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

What's the case against Bridgewater? He seems like a GREAT fit for us. There is certainly a degree of risk involved - but it'd allow us to go BPA in free agency and the draft.

Bridgewater is a high ceiling-low floor guy- but its hard to imagine a better time than now to roll the dice with a guy like Bridgewater. He's a highly affordable 25 year old quarterback with great accuracy and instincts. 

I think Bridgewater will command more money than people think. If guys like Chase Daniels can command 7 mill a year to be a backup how much is a guy like Teddy gonna command? 12 to 16 million? We might get into a bidding war. Plus his hand size was why he dropped in the draft. I don't think he's a guy you can depend on in cold weather even if he's healthy

[germ-x]

IMO, Kirk Cousins is the only long term solution at QB.  Even then, I don’t think he’s carry a team good.  We’ve seen that in Washington.  But, if you put some weapons around him and a top 10 defense and he could win a SB.  Still don’t know that I’d be happy giving him $25-30 million.

Alex Smith and Tyrod Taylor would be nice stop gaps though.  Both improve the offense, especially behind a shaky OL with their ability to scramble.  Short term, if the defense continues to be top 5 in the league I think they turn Denver into a playoff team.  Come playoff time though it’d take an absolutely dominant defense to get a championship. Adding Smith or Taylor I don’t think changes Denver’s need in acquiring a franchise QB.

For Denver I think it comes down to the draft evaluation process.  If they think Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield can be franchise type guys it may make more sense to go the stop gap route.  If they don’t I see Elway making a really strong play for Cousins and using the high picks to solidify other positions/units on the team.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

For Denver I think it comes down to the draft evaluation process.  If they think Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield can be franchise type guys it may make more sense to go the stop gap route.  If they don’t I see Elway making a really strong play for Cousins and using the high picks to solidify other positions/units on the team.

The primary decision of this offseason will be do we want to pay Kirk 25-30M per season or do we want to surrender a 2019 R1 to snag Rosen or Darnold.

Both options require the surrender of considerable capital, but at this moment I lean towards paying the ransom for Cousins. Can we build a competitive team with the requisite depth with 50-60M invested in two players (Cousins and Von). I think we easily can if the scouting department gets their act together and Elway continues to find bargain basement FA acquisitions.

And while Cousins may not be 22 or 23, these days 29 isn't old for a QB. He could be here for 5 years playing at a top 10-12 level. That's a long term solution in my eyes.

[thebestever6]

2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

The primary decision of this offseason will be do we want to pay Kirk 25-30M per season or do we want to surrender a 2019 R1 to snag Rosen or Darnold.

Both options require the surrender of considerable capital, but at this moment I lean towards paying the ransom for Cousins. Can we build a competitive team with the requisite depth with 50-60M invested in two players (Cousins and Von). I think we easily can if the scouting department gets their act together and Elway continues to find bargain basement FA acquisitions.

And while Cousins may not be 22 or 23, these days 29 isn't old for a QB. He could be here for 5 years playing at a top 10-12 level. That's a long term solution in my eyes.

Imo Cousins is marginally better than alex smith you don't give a marginally better player 10 million more dollars. 

Plus its also gonna take draft capital I doubt Washington just lets Kirk walk out the front door. I'm against this move without draft capital the fact that it will require it is the icing on the cake not to do it.

[Broncofan]

36 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Imo Cousins is marginally better than alex smith you don't give a marginally better player 10 million more dollars. 

Plus its also gonna take draft capital I doubt Washington just lets Kirk walk out the front door. I'm against this move without draft capital the fact that it will require it is the icing on the cake not to do it.

Actually I have good news on that count - remember all that talk about trading Von when he had the franchise tag but hadn’t signed? Turns out you can’t until the tag is signed.    

I was under the impression from all the Von talk a player with a tag but who hasn’t signed could be traded - they can’t unless they agree to sign the tag and trade (iwhich Cousins won’t do).  So I stand corrected there;  this is a big change for Cousins’ situation.  

So even if WAS transition tags him they can’t trade his rights.  The 28M transition tag only allows right to match but no draft picks.  The only leverage WAS can apply if the 34M non exclusive tag.  Which if that gets applied we are out as that’s 2 1sts.   But the outlook on needing to pay picks is actually a lot less likely given team can offer the tag but can’t trade a player who is tagged but unsigned. 

The bigger Q besides the cap commitment is if he’d consider us a top destination.   A lot of teams will pursue him.   I do think he’s a 3-4W QB the Skins without him are likely going to struggle - they have gone out of their way to throw shade at him each offseason while he just plays the good soldier and doesn’t hold out or create waves.   I don’t know any FA QB that would want to go there.    Cousins would upgrade by 3-4W - the question is whether we’d improve enough elsewhere that cap strapped not to waste the QB gain. 

 

[thebestever6]

10 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Actually I have good news on that count - remember all that talk about trading Von when he had the franchise tag but hadn’t signed? Turns out you can’t until the tag is signed.    

I was under the impression from all the Von talk a player with a tag but who hasn’t signed could be traded - they can’t unless they agree to sign the tag and trade (iwhich Cousins won’t do).  So I stand corrected there;  this is a big change for Cousins’ situation.  

So even if WAS transition tags him they can’t trade his rights.  The 28M transition tag only allows right to match but no draft picks.  The only leverage WAS can apply if the 34M non exclusive tag.  Which if that gets applied we are out as that’s 2 1sts.   But the outlook on needing to pay picks is actually a lot less likely given team can offer the tag but can’t trade a player who is tagged but unsigned. 

The bigger Q besides the cap commitment is if he’d consider us a top destination.   A lot of teams will pursue him.   I do think he’s a 3-4W QB the Skins without him are likely going to struggle - they have gone out of their way to throw shade at him each offseason while he just plays the good soldier and doesn’t hold out or create waves.   I don’t know any FA QB that would want to go there.    Cousins would upgrade by 3-4W - the question is whether we’d improve enough elsewhere that cap strapped not to waste the QB gain. 

 

So whats to stop them from giving the transition tag and saying you either agree to a trade or you're stuck here playing year to year. As inept as Washington is they're not letting him walk for nothing you can quote me on that. Basically both Washington and kirk have power in this situation. 

[iLikeDefense]

With the report that Jay Gruden wants a resolution on Kirk’s contract immediately, I don’t think Washington will be playing any games this offseason. I think it’ll either be long term contract or cut bait and start draft/FA Qb evaluation process for them.

 

[Broncofan]

11 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

So whats to stop them from giving the transition tag and saying you either agree to a trade or you're stuck here playing year to year. As inept as Washington is they're not letting him walk for nothing you can quote me on that. Basically both Washington and kirk have power in this situation. 

The transition tag only applies if no one makes an offer.  It allows other teams to make an offer then WAS has the right to match.  That’s all it gives them.    All the trade talk with Von when he hadn’t signed was actually incorrect - big change to WAS leverage.  If they go with the franchise 34M+ tag then they have the leverage of getting 2 1sts.  The 28M only offers WAS the right to match any offer made by other teams.  But not being able to trade him while tagged but unsigned does limit their options.  

[broncofan48]

22 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

So whats to stop them from giving the transition tag and saying you either agree to a trade or you're stuck here playing year to year. As inept as Washington is they're not letting him walk for nothing you can quote me on that. Basically both Washington and kirk have power in this situation. 

Not exactly a good look for the franchise to attract free agents 

[Broncofan]

33 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

So whats to stop them from giving the transition tag and saying you either agree to a trade or you're stuck here playing year to year. As inept as Washington is they're not letting him walk for nothing you can quote me on that. Basically both Washington and kirk have power in this situation. 

 

10 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Not exactly a good look for the franchise to attract free agents 

It’s also not happening beyond this year with a non exclusive franchise tag at 34M (or 2 1sts if a team offers) or transition tag at 28M (but which allows teams to bid with no picks lost just WAS can match).   Why?   Next year either tag has to go up by 44 percent.   That means 50M+ franchise or 41M transition tag for 2019.    That’s an empty threat to say the least.

This is WAS last offseason without an extension.   And given they can’t trade a tagged player who is unsigned their only option for leverage is the 34M franchise tag.  

[thebestever6]

5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

It’s also not happening beyond this year with a non exclusive franchise tag at 34M (or 2 1sts if a team offers) or transition tag at 28M (but which allows teams to bid with no picks lost just WAS can match).   Why?   Next year either tag has to go up by 44 percent.   That means 50M+ franchise or 41M transition tag for 2019.    That’s an empty threat to say the least.

This is WAS last offseason without an extension.   And given they can’t trade a tagged player who is unsigned their only option for leverage is the 34M franchise tag.  

They're gonna start trade talks asap Cousins has potentially 9 teams that will bid for his services. If the franchise offer is what it takes so be it. The fact is they aren't gonna let Cousins walk out the door into the sunset a free man. He will command 2 high picks like a first and second minimum. That's a rabbit hole not ideal to go down.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

They're gonna start trade talks asap Cousins has potentially 9 teams that will bid for his services. If the franchise offer is what it takes so be it. The fact is they aren't gonna let Cousins walk out the door into the sunset a free man. He will command 2 high picks like a first and second minimum. That's a rabbit hole not ideal to go down.

Here’s the problem - Cousins isn’t under contract until they offer him a tag and he signs it.   Washington can’t trade him under such circumstances.  That’s where all the trade scenarios with Von tendered but unsigned being put forth were wrong.  It was never possible (without a sign and trade but literally no reason for a player to agree).  

And the other rub - under the rules, teams deadline to apply the tag happens before the trade window opens up.  

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2018-important-nfl-dates/

Trading isn’t allowed until after  March 14th, 4 pm ET - which is 8 days after the deadline to offer the tag (March 6).   So WAS ability to trade before having to decide on the tag isn’t there.   And until Cousins signs the tag they can’t deal him.   Their only leverage is the 34M franchise tag.  

And here’s the final rub - the WAS coach already went on record as saying he doesn’t want a one year deal for Cousins.  As  noted  by @iLikeDefense- http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1463271

[thebestever6]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Here’s the problem - Cousins isn’t under contract until they offer him a tag and he signs it.   Washington can’t trade him under such circumstances.  That’s where all the trade scenarios with Von tendered but unsigned being put forth were wrong.  It was never possible (without a sign and trade but literally no reason for a player to agree).  

And the other rub - under the rules, teams deadline to apply the tag happens before the trade window opens up.  

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2018-important-nfl-dates/

Trading isn’t allowed until after  March 14th, 4 pm ET - which is 8 days after the deadline to offer the tag (March 6).   So WAS ability to trade before having to decide on the tag isn’t there.   And until Cousins signs the tag they can’t deal him.   Their only leverage is the 34M franchise tag.  

And here’s the final rub - the WAS coach already went on record as saying he doesn’t want a one year deal for Cousins.  As  noted  by @iLikeDefense- http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1463271

Thats for trades to be completed.  There's discussions of a trade as soon as the combine happense maybe sooner.  I expect preliminary discussions to happen asap even if its on the down low. Even if it's tampering tampering happens all the time.

The deadline for the tag happens before a trade can be made yes, but I believe that is all semantics. Washington is not just gonna lose their best qb they've ever had for nothing.