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thebestever6

Is the Qb situation good enough?

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Just now, BroncosFan2010 said:

Well Wolfe was also willing to sign on a discount, was more proven and had not yet shown a injury bug. At the time it was the correct decision. Malik was always planning on testing the waters. He wanted to get as much as possible.

Its great to get guys to sign early, before they know their true market value, but that isn't the reality of this leagues economics. Agents are always going to steer their players towards testing the waters, and in most cases that's the right decision for the player too.

80%+ of players will want to test the FA market coming off their rookie deals. This is a violent sport, it may be their only chance to get paid.

Disagree that Wolfe was more proven, he was a solid run stopping end but he took his game to another level in 2015. Malik was a matchup nightmare as early as 2013. 

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Disagree that Wolfe was more proven, he was a solid run stopping end but he took his game to another level in 2015. Malik was a matchup nightmare as early as 2013. 

Wolfe was a starter almost the entire time and had like 11 sacks his first two years.

The decision was easy, at the time, when taking into account the amounts each was demanding. Wolfe was willing to sacrifice salary, Malik wasn't, the talent difference wasn't worth sticking with the more expensive player. It was a simple decision.

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6 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Wolfe was a starter almost the entire time and had like 11 sacks his first two years.

The decision was easy, at the time, when taking into account the amounts each was demanding. Wolfe was willing to sacrifice salary, Malik wasn't, the talent difference wasn't worth sticking with the more expensive player. It was a simple decision.

Wolfe was a starter because he was ready to play immediately as a rookie, Malik was raw and needed to be coached up. He got a one year head start. By 2013, it was clear Malik was the one who was special, not Wolfe. Wolfe did get a lot of clean up sacks, but Malik always flashed more as a pass rusher. 

It was only a simple decision because Elway waited until the last minute to make it. He boxed himself in. 

Edited by BroncoBruin

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Wolfe was a starter because he was ready to play immediately as a rookie, Malik was raw and needed to be coached up. He got a one year head start. By 2013, it was clear Malik was the one who was special, not Wolfe. Wolfe did get a lot of clean up sacks, but Malik always flashed more as a pass rusher. 

It was only a simple decision because Elway waited until the last minute to make it. He boxed himself in. 

Malik flashed more as a pass rusher but was more undisciplined, got lots of penalties and, again, wasn't willing to give a discount.

Elway went with the guy willing to play for less. Its a really, really simple decision. Wolfe signed Jan 15th, 2015 for a reduced price (He probably was 11-12M open market). And most people were on board with it at the time. Wolfe was seen as more reliable with a better motor and, most notably, more interested in loyalty (IE: Taking the paycut) than Malik. Consensus was that Malik cared more about money than winning, this was the narrative before the summer even hit.

Extending players on a regular basis before their rookie contracts expire is something that happens more in Madden than in real life.

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2 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Malik flashed more as a pass rusher but was more undisciplined, got lots of penalties and, again, wasn't willing to give a discount.

Again...Elway waited until January to resign a DE. What makes you think he couldn't have been had for Wolfe's price in camp? Malik even said Elway could have signed him for "less than nothing" before the season.

Elway made it a "simple decision" by waiting too long. You can make a lot of easy decisions by giving yourself no options. That's nothing to celebrate.

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12 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Again...Elway waited until January to resign a DE. What makes you think he couldn't have been had for Wolfe's price in camp? Malik even said Elway could have signed him for "less than nothing" before the season.

Elway made it a "simple decision" by waiting too long. You can make a lot of easy decisions by giving yourself no options. That's nothing to celebrate.

I think Elway was in a tough spot with Malik and Derek. You have two guys that clearly were hard workers, nasty, and talented. They both put up similar numbers in terms of run stoppage and pass rushing. To think he'd throw out contracts to one or both would have been tough with Von and Brock being FA's that off-season. 

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3 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Marshall's isn't that bad yet. But 2019-2020 he'll be making 9 million and 9.5 million and that's laughable for his level of play the past two years. 

Remember too that Elway was finessing the cap to stay in contention.   

The argument about locking in Von and Malik earlier works in a vacuum - but we forget quickly that the cap allowed little room to get the upgrades we needed to be a complete team.  

We extend Von or Malik a year early the extra $ spent prevents us from getting Stewart at 2M (4M/2) or Vance Walker at 2M in 2015.    We don’t likely win without those guys.  

I’ve been outspoken in my criticism of Elway’s 2016-17 moves esp in the draft.   And even though I was fine with the signing at the time it’s very fair to say Marshall has been a huge fail since getting extended - although it’s more about injuries (hamstring / knee last year and then labrum this year).   That’s the problem with investing after the rookie deal esp with ILB - it’s a meat grinder position and injury decline was always the thing Marshall was most likely to be vulnerable to.  Having said that - I can’t fault Elway for holding off on the extensions.   The cap reality of going for the SB played a huge part.   We just paid for holding off after when it comes to Von and letting Malik walk.  

The bigger issue many others recognize is that our drafting and bargain FA well has run dry.   That’s forced us to pay the expensive 2nd contract more and more. In an ideal world you can turn over with affordable rookie deal guys in their 2nd-3rd years.   We haven’t been able to do that at the rate perennial contenders are doing.   That increases the chances of whiffing in the later years like we are seeing now.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Broncofan

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Losing the bulk of the 2011 and 2012 draft picks by 2016 really hurt Denver.

There will never be a more talented Broncos roster than the one we had in 2014. It really was a perfect storm. All of the 2011 and 2012 draft picks, DT still on his rookie deal, three consecutive years of loading up with stars in free agency. 

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