Is the Qb situation good enough?

[thebestever6]

7 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

Aside from the fact that Dalton has AJ green and Cousins best WR is Crowder the super bowl is the goal. 

 

Brady, Big Ben and rivers are all on the downside of their careers.   

That leaves Luck and mariota from your list in the AFC.  And who knows if luck is the guy he once was or more Chad Pennington.

 

Getting cousins a proven commodity along with some good drafts could cement Denver in the class of the AFC for the next 5-7 years and I would put money on elway thinking the same 

Teams evolve and grow who knows what the landscape looks like in 5 years wish I had your crystal ball. Hell the worst team in the afc has 2 top 4 draft plus 100 million in cap space. Banking on cousins doesn't seem ideal.

Its just my opinion Kubiak was brought in here and we are coaching the senior bowl. This is where evaluation comes into play build a team from the ground up. Its easier to add pieces to the d as they age. Than invest 70 million guaranteed into the qb position. 

[broncofan48]

Just now, thebestever6 said:

Teams evolve and grow who knows what the landscape looks like in 5 years wish I had your crystal ball. Hell the worst team in the afc has 2 top 4 draft plus 100 million in cap space. Banking on cousins doesn't seem ideal.

So you’d rather take a chance on drafting another unproven guy?   Cousins can play and if 8-9 teams would bid on him in FA (your words) thy means at lest 25% of the league think he’s good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

All I know is I’m almost sure elway goes after cousins and goes hard.  Whether that’s enough or not time will tell

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, broncofan48 said:

So you’d rather take a chance on drafting another unproven guy?   Cousins can play and if 8-9 teams would bid on him in FA (your words) thy means at lest 25% of the league think he’s good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

All I know is I’m almost sure elway goes after cousins and goes hard.  Whether that’s enough or not time will tell

Its just my opinion Kubiak was brought in here and we are coaching the senior bowl. This is where evaluation comes into play build a team from the ground up. Its easier to add pieces to the d as they age. Than invest 70 million guaranteed into the qb position. 

Andy Dalton also had like 4 offensive coordinators the last 5 years cousins had 2.

And you're not looking at superbowl organizations doing that of those 9 teams. You're looking at perenial bottom feeders. Not a new England, or the Steelers. 

[thebestever6]

At the end of the year presser Elway wasn't adamant about being one player away he seemed to have a different view point. His demeanourand body language seems like this is a tall task that may take time. Maybe that's the product of a long frustrating season or the inability to know if we will land Cousins I'm not sure time will tell.

I can say as a fan I'll hate the move because I'm not sure Cousins is moderately better than Andy Dalton. And Andy Dalton and Alex Smith have been a guage on whether someone is a franchise qb or not since 2011.

Fans fear the unknown and thats why everyone is hoping.  But, with Cousins I fear the known.

[thebestever6]

Cousins is the girl at the bar around 2 am that is a 6 but you hype up to be a 10 because you're drunk and the bar is about to close. So something is better than nothing best analogy I can give.

[thebestever6]

The senior bowl is critical especially if Allen and Mayfield are on our squad.  I think the biggest thing we'd wanna see if how well those guys take to coaching. And how much improvement they can make in a short time. You want a guy whos skyrocketing upwards and shows ability to take to coaching. 

[germ-x]

25 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Cousins is the girl at the bar around 2 am that is a 6 but you hype up to be a 10 because you're drunk and the bar is about to close. So something is better than nothing best analogy I can give.

I agree with you in that Cousins isn’t an elite QB.  But he’s still pretty damn good.  81TDs to 36 INts over the last three years is impressive.  Threw for 4,000+ yards in each of those seasons as well.  Those Washington teams also haven’t had a lot of talent at the skill positions.

Washington would be stupid to let him get away because they don’t have a better alternative.  It’s why I don’t think he’ll even hit the market unless Cousins feels so slighted by them (which is possible) that he just wants to get the hell out.

[thebestever6]

5 hours ago, germ-x said:

I agree with you in that Cousins isn’t an elite QB.  But he’s still pretty damn good.  81TDs to 36 INts over the last three years is impressive.  Threw for 4,000+ yards in each of those seasons as well.  Those Washington teams also haven’t had a lot of talent at the skill positions.

Washington would be stupid to let him get away because they don’t have a better alternative.  It’s why I don’t think he’ll even hit the market unless Cousins feels so slighted by them (which is possible) that he just wants to get the hell out.

I agree with all of that and at the same time paying a guy 25 to 30 mill doesn't scream to me this is how you build a talented team.

[jsthomp2007]

14 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

I disagree on Cousins being middle tier but even if he is a regular playoff QB.  In 3 years who is he going to be going against?  Big Ben, Brady and Rivers are all on the end of their careers.  So that leaves Carr, Luck, Watson, Mariota, Flacco, Eli if JAX goes that way, Tannehill, Tyrod?, Smith?  and maybe Darnold Rosen or one of these rookies.  

 

Frankly I think there's about to be a power vacuum at the top of the AFC that with Cousins and a good draft Denver could take advantage of.  It's also why I see JAX going hard after Eli to try and use that elite D to win a Superbowl before the salary cap catches up to them.

 

Add Cousins, draft well with the top few picks and Denver will be right back to prominence.

Those are pretty good points.  Okay, I will change my positioning on the Cousins front.  

I guess if you nab Cousins it will free-up the Broncos to get Barkley or Nelson, or even Chubb...think it might make sense to draft a DE like him with Wolf's career uncertain.  

[BroncosFan2010]

I don't think its a stretch to say that we would be lucky if even the best QB prospects in this draft end up as good as Cousins in 2-3 years. This idea that Darnold or Rosen are going to be HOF caliber players is pretty optimistic, and I say that as someone who thinks they are our 2nd and 3rd best options at QB.

Cousins is a borderline elite player. The NFL is about to hit a QB vacuum when Brady (41), Ben (36), Eli (37), Brees (38), Rivers (36) even Rogers (34) leave (That was a GREAT point broncofan48, and the ages I outlined are for the 2018/19 season). Once the old, elite QB's are gone there is a very good chance that Cousins is a top 5 QB. Even if he only falls into the top 10, and I would argue that he does right now, then he is worth the $$$.

Elway cant afford to miss on a drafted QB for a third time. This defense is still good enough to win a championship. I truly believe that if you added Cousins and Saquan Barkley to this team,  find even a slightly-below-average RT, and we would be overnight Super Bowl contenders.

So do we handicap the team in a way by spending 25-30M on Cousins, or do we deplete our draft capital by trading a future R1 pick for Darnold/Rosen? Clearly I prefer the former to the latter. Even taking into account Darnold (Maybe even Rosen) falling to #5, I still think Cousins is the better option. Because best case scenario the QB develops into a Cousins like talent in a few years. The defense is aging, I say we just get that talent now.

Its surprising to me that so many people are willing to rely on drafting a QB when it has shown to be so shaky in the past. IMHO this is all moot because Elway cant afford to miss again on a QB so I believe he goes for the sure thing.

[jsthomp2007]

Yeah, I guess the thought of Cousins, a decent RT, and Barkley....along with a healthy Butt!  Who doesn't like a healthy Butt?  And, the offense looks a ton better than it was.  Can we be optimistic that Carlos also excels in the slot, maybe? 

For the defense...sure would like to sure up another DE and an ILB who can cover RBs and TEs...Why can't Carter put on the weight to play inside vs. safety?  

[thebestever6]

43 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I don't think its a stretch to say that we would be lucky if even the best QB prospects in this draft end up as good as Cousins in 2-3 years. This idea that Darnold or Rosen are going to be HOF caliber players is pretty optimistic, and I say that as someone who thinks they are our 2nd and 3rd best options at QB.

Cousins is a borderline elite player. The NFL is about to hit a QB vacuum when Brady (41), Ben (36), Eli (37), Brees (38), Rivers (36) even Rogers (34) leave (That was a GREAT point broncofan48, and the ages I outlined are for the 2018/19 season). Once the old, elite QB's are gone there is a very good chance that Cousins is a top 5 QB. Even if he only falls into the top 10, and I would argue that he does right now, then he is worth the $$$.

Elway cant afford to miss on a drafted QB for a third time. This defense is still good enough to win a championship. I truly believe that if you added Cousins and Saquan Barkley to this team,  find even a slightly-below-average RT, and we would be overnight Super Bowl contenders.

So do we handicap the team in a way by spending 25-30M on Cousins, or do we deplete our draft capital by trading a future R1 pick for Darnold/Rosen? Clearly I prefer the former to the latter. Even taking into account Darnold (Maybe even Rosen) falling to #5, I still think Cousins is the better option. Because best case scenario the QB develops into a Cousins like talent in a few years. The defense is aging, I say we just get that talent now.

Its surprising to me that so many people are willing to rely on drafting a QB when it has shown to be so shaky in the past. IMHO this is all moot because Elway cant afford to miss again on a QB so I believe he goes for the sure thing.

You're way to optimistic on Cousins there will be 2 to 3 qbs that perform better than him from this class.

Since Gruden has been the coach Cousins has had stability scheme wise can't overlook that and assume it ttanslates here. I've been saying Cousins only proves to be marginally better than Dalton.

I'd argue that the only reason people don't want a qb through the draft is because of the failures at,that spot. I'd hope Elway doesn't share that fear.  The day John elway is scared to evaluate and draft a qb is the day that he should no longer be with this organization. 

[BroncosFan2010]

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You're way to optimistic on Cousins there will be 2 to 3 qbs that perform better than him from this class.

So your saying that 2-3 QB's from this draft class will become top 10 QBs?

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I've been saying Cousins only proves to be marginally better than Dalton.

That's fine, not true, but fine. Cousins hasn't had a WR with half the talent as AJ in his entire career.

Quote

I'd argue that the only reason people don't want a qb through the draft is because of the failures at,that spot. I'd hope Elway doesn't share that fear.  The day John elway is scared to evaluate and draft a qb is the day that he should no longer be with this organization. 

I simply believe that we have a timeframe that doesn't project well to a rookie QB. We have a defense that is in its prime. Why wait for a rookie QB to develop? We can be a top team in the league next season with a upper tier QB and improved OL. That's my stance. The league right now is not preforming that well, there are no juggernauts, its a ripe time to skip the rebuild, sign the franchise QB and make another run. If we don't take that route, we might as well dismantle the defense and truly start from scratch.

Cousins is a gun slinging QB who also manages to not throw many interceptions. He is in his prime, a great leader, no stranger to adversity, and would massively transform the offensive culture, likely overnight. He is the player that many would hope Sam Darnold becomes, but with a better arm, and bigger hands, than Sam Darnold. If we can get a franchise QB and turn our #5 into more picks to upgrade the OL overnight, we should do so.

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

11 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

So you’d rather take a chance on drafting another unproven guy?   Cousins can play and if 8-9 teams would bid on him in FA (your words) thy means at lest 25% of the league think he’s good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

All I know is I’m almost sure elway goes after cousins and goes hard.  Whether that’s enough or not time will tell

The fact of the matter is that no team has won a SB with a QB whose salary cap hit was greater than 10% of the total cap number (the highest was Peyton Manning's $15M in 2015 which was ~9.5%)

You want to know the reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? It's not because he was actually the best QB, its because he has never had a cap number higher than 10% (this year it's $14M). He bought in a long time ago that his goal was not to make the most money, but rather to collect the most rings.

look at all of the SB winning QBs from the last 20 years. None of them won a SB after they got paid.

The only way to win a SB (and that's the goal, right?) is to draft a QB or sign one cheap who out performs their contract.

[broncofan48]

8 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

The fact of the matter is that no team has won a SB with a QB whose salary cap hit was greater than 10% of the total cap number (the highest was Peyton Manning's $15M in 2015 which was ~9.5%)

You want to know the reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? It's not because he was actually the best QB, its because he has never had a cap number higher than 10% (this year it's $14M). He bought in a long time ago that his goal was not to make the most money, but rather to collect the most rings.

look at all of the SB winning QBs from the last 20 years. None of them won a SB after they got paid.

The only way to win a SB (and that's the goal, right?) is to draft a QB or sign one cheap who out performs their contract.

That’s a pretty crazy stat I didn’t know.  

Ive had this argument with friends but Brady is the exception.  I’d take a pay cut if my wife was the highest paid model on earth.   But I digress.