Is the Qb situation good enough?

[bMiller031]

50 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

The fact of the matter is that no team has won a SB with a QB whose salary cap hit was greater than 10% of the total cap number (the highest was Peyton Manning's $15M in 2015 which was ~9.5%)

You want to know the reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? It's not because he was actually the best QB, its because he has never had a cap number higher than 10% (this year it's $14M). He bought in a long time ago that his goal was not to make the most money, but rather to collect the most rings.

look at all of the SB winning QBs from the last 20 years. None of them won a SB after they got paid.

The only way to win a SB (and that's the goal, right?) is to draft a QB or sign one cheap who out performs their contract.

TB's situation is unique -- given the wealth of his supermodel wife and hefty endorsement deals. 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

6 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

TB's situation is unique -- given the wealth of his supermodel wife and hefty endorsement deals. 

The argument can be made that the reason he has such hefty endorsement deals is because of his rings.

I also want to clarify. He is a top 5 all time QB, but will go down as the undisputed GOAT because of his willingness to take less pay.

[champ11]

59 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

The fact of the matter is that no team has won a SB with a QB whose salary cap hit was greater than 10% of the total cap number (the highest was Peyton Manning's $15M in 2015 which was ~9.5%)

You want to know the reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? It's not because he was actually the best QB, its because he has never had a cap number higher than 10% (this year it's $14M). He bought in a long time ago that his goal was not to make the most money, but rather to collect the most rings.

look at all of the SB winning QBs from the last 20 years. None of them won a SB after they got paid.

The only way to win a SB (and that's the goal, right?) is to draft a QB or sign one cheap who out performs their contract.

Marrying a supermodel that makes more money than you is so key.

Great post though. Good point. 

[champ11]

wow like three people made the same comment as me lmao. 

but yeah the jig with modern athletes is that if you're a superstar - the contract doesn't matter in comparison to the shoe and endorsement deals. Durant took a pay cut bc the team that cuts his biggest checks is Nike. that being said, it still matters that you get paid what you are worth and I guess Tom deserves credit for taking a pay cut for the team. it's freaking idiotic in the sport of football and actually disrespectful to other players to set that "standard" but whatever. 

[jsthomp2007]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

So your saying that 2-3 QB's from this draft class will become top 10 QBs?

That's fine, not true, but fine. Cousins hasn't had a WR with half the talent as AJ in his entire career.

I simply believe that we have a timeframe that doesn't project well to a rookie QB. We have a defense that is in its prime. Why wait for a rookie QB to develop? We can be a top team in the league next season with a upper tier QB and improved OL. That's my stance. The league right now is not preforming that well, there are no juggernauts, its a ripe time to skip the rebuild, sign the franchise QB and make another run. If we don't take that route, we might as well dismantle the defense and truly start from scratch.

Cousins is a gun slinging QB who also manages to not throw many interceptions. He is in his prime, a great leader, no stranger to adversity, and would massively transform the offensive culture, likely overnight. He is the player that many would hope Sam Darnold becomes, but with a better arm, and bigger hands, than Sam Darnold. If we can get a franchise QB and turn our #5 into more picks to upgrade the OL overnight, we should do so.

If Alex Smith hits the market and takes less money...would you take that deal over Cousins, because I am not sure if I see the difference between these two QBs...guessing though that Alex gets traded to the Cardinals so that Alex doesn't go to a division rival...at least that's what I'd do...ship him out of the conference. 

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

So your saying that 2-3 QB's from this draft class will become top 10 QBs?

That's fine, not true, but fine. Cousins hasn't had a WR with half the talent as AJ in his entire career.

I simply believe that we have a timeframe that doesn't project well to a rookie QB. We have a defense that is in its prime. Why wait for a rookie QB to develop? We can be a top team in the league next season with a upper tier QB and improved OL. That's my stance. The league right now is not preforming that well, there are no juggernauts, its a ripe time to skip the rebuild, sign the franchise QB and make another run. If we don't take that route, we might as well dismantle the defense and truly start from scratch.

Cousins is a gun slinging QB who also manages to not throw many interceptions. He is in his prime, a great leader, no stranger to adversity, and would massively transform the offensive culture, likely overnight. He is the player that yup I'd many would hope Sam Darnold becomes, but with a better arm, and bigger hands, than Sam Darnold. If we can get a franchise QB and turn our #5 into more picks to upgrade the OL overnight, we should do so.

I don't believe  Cousins  is a top 10 qb. I'd love to see his record against playoff teams ala Stafford. 

[jsthomp2007]

14 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I don't believe  Cousins  is a top 10 qb. I'd love to see his record against playoff teams ala Stafford. 

I would take Stafford over just about any QB i the league...that guy plays for the Lions.....nuff said. 

[bMiller031]

The best bargain in the league is getting solid production from a quarterback on a rookie deal.

It allows the team to build a strong roster everywhere else- (ex: Philadelphia, LA Rams, Houston pre-Watson injury, etc)

If we feel that we can get that this offseason (i.e. Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, etc) then nothing else matters, we need to go get that guy. Cousins is the safe pick because he probably keeps us between 8-12 wins for the next five years -- but with his cap hit, I don't think that we can construct a team that poses a legitimate title threat over that span. 

Bringing in Cousins takes all the heat off Elway-- but limits the upside of this team moving forward. Drafting a QB early will take some serious balls-- especially after the Paxton debacle-- but will give us the best chance to make a Super Bowl play. 

[BroncoSojia]

2 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

The best bargain in the league is getting solid production from a quarterback on a rookie deal.

It allows the team to build a strong roster everywhere else- (ex: Philadelphia, LA Rams, Houston pre-Watson injury, etc)

If we feel that we can get that this offseason (i.e. Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, etc) then nothing else matters, we need to go get that guy. Cousins is the safe pick because he probably keeps us between 8-12 wins for the next five years -- but with his cap hit, I don't think that we can construct a team that poses a legitimate title threat over that span. 

Bringing in Cousins takes all the heat off Elway-- but limits the upside of this team moving forward. Drafting a QB early will take some serious balls-- especially after the Paxton debacle-- but will give us the best chance to make a Super Bowl play. 

This is how I feel pretty much. Plus, I just don't think Cousins is good enough to justify the money + the players we'd have to move in order to get him. I'd rather take our chances with a draft pick. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

22 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

What if Cleveland throws that kind of money at Cousins?  They have a much better offensive line, which it seems like he needs to thrive...he didn't fair well this year behind the Redskin's make shift line...their line might have been worse than ours.  I am just saying, Cousins could walk into the same money, behind a better line, and the Browns have two top five picks to build that team.  

I am hoping and praying Cousins goes there. 

To be clear, I believe signing Cousins is "Plan A" for our QB situation but that does not mean we are certain to land him. As you say, there will be other suitors. The one that would be a no-brainer would be Jacksonville. The Jags aren't a QB away from contending, they're a QB away from a potential dynasty, and, let's not forgot, Florida does not have a state income tax. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

15 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Its just my opinion Kubiak was brought in here and we are coaching the senior bowl. This is where evaluation comes into play build a team from the ground up. Its easier to add pieces to the d as they age. Than invest 70 million guaranteed into the qb position. 

But a better option would be to roll the dice on one of these rookies? I've been saying it all along, all four potential first round QBs have some pretty serious red flags. There isn't an Andrew Luck in this class. 

Josh Rosen - love for the game? Attitude? Off-the-field interests? Is Ellis going to want to draft someone and make him the face of the franchise when there's a good chance he goes on the radio or something and says something political that pissesoff half the fan base? We already have a head coach the fans don't like. This organization hates controversy. 

Sam Darnold - all sorts of turnovers, inconsistency, high bust rate of USC QBs. Plus his funky delivery. There's upside and potential here, as there is with Rosen from a physical standpoint, but he's a roll of the dice. 

Baker Mayfield - under-sized, probably small hands from a gimmick backyard ball offense? That's a huge gamble. Throw in the off-the-field trouble. Compare him to Russell Wilson all you w want but Wilson never had the maturity and character concern issues Mayfield does. 

Josh Allen - all the measureables are there but there are major concerns about his accuracy and the level of competition he faced in college. Sounds a lot like Paxton Lynch v 2.0. 

Lamar Jackson - more of an athlete than a QB. Will take time to develop, like Allen, and this is not a patient franchise or fan base. 

Again, I come back to the fact that this team needs a quick turnaround from a business perspective. If we don't get Cousins we have to get a bridge QB and while one of these high risk rookies sits and develops. Sounds an awful lot like the last two years, remember Mark Sanchez?

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

But a better option would be to roll the dice on one of these rookies? I've been saying it all along, all four potential first round QBs have some pretty serious red flags. There isn't an Andrew Luck in this class. 

Josh Rosen - love for the game? Attitude? Off-the-field interests? Is Ellis going to want to draft someone and make him the face of the franchise when there's a good chance he goes on the radio or something and says something political that pissesoff half the fan base? We already have a head coach the fans don't like. This organization hates controversy. 

Sam Darnold - all sorts of turnovers, inconsistency, high bust rate of USC QBs. Plus his funky delivery. There's upside and potential here, as there is with Rosen from a physical standpoint, but he's a roll of the dice. 

Baker Mayfield - under-sized, probably small hands from a gimmick backyard ball offense? That's a huge gamble. Throw in the off-the-field trouble. Compare him to Russell Wilson all you w want but Wilson never had the maturity and character concern issues Mayfield does. 

Josh Allen - all the measureables are there but there are major concerns about his accuracy and the level of competition he faced in college. Sounds a lot like Paxton Lynch v 2.0. 

Lamar Jackson - more of an athlete than a QB. Will take time to develop, like Allen, and this is not a patient franchise or fan base. 

Again, I come back to the fact that this team needs a quick turnaround from a business perspective. If we don't get Cousins we have to get a bridge QB and while one of these high risk rookies sits and develops. Sounds an awful lot like the last two years, remember Mark Sanchez?

That plan of a bridge qb for a rookie develop is probably the best one. Elway just mad 2 bad selection. Like I said the day elway lacks confidence to evaluate players and pull the trigger is the day he shouldn't be here anymore. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

9 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I agree with all of that and at the same time paying a guy 25 to 30 mill doesn't scream to me this is how you build a talented team.

We paid the 2012 equivalent to Peyton and that worked out well. We built a pretty talented team and enjoyed some success, if you recall. 

[thebestever6]

Just now, AnAngryAmerican said:

We paid the 2012 equivalent to Peyton and that worked our well. We built a pretty talented team and enjoyed some success, if you recall. 

One peyton manning a generational player.  The second best qb of my lifetime.  One is barely above Dalton in terms of production. HUGE! Difference. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

6 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I don't think its a stretch to say that we would be lucky if even the best QB prospects in this draft end up as good as Cousins in 2-3 years. This idea that Darnold or Rosen are going to be HOF caliber players is pretty optimistic, and I say that as someone who thinks they are our 2nd and 3rd best options at QB.

Cousins is a borderline elite player. The NFL is about to hit a QB vacuum when Brady (41), Ben (36), Eli (37), Brees (38), Rivers (36) even Rogers (34) leave (That was a GREAT point broncofan48, and the ages I outlined are for the 2018/19 season). Once the old, elite QB's are gone there is a very good chance that Cousins is a top 5 QB. Even if he only falls into the top 10, and I would argue that he does right now, then he is worth the $$$.

Elway cant afford to miss on a drafted QB for a third time. This defense is still good enough to win a championship. I truly believe that if you added Cousins and Saquan Barkley to this team,  find even a slightly-below-average RT, and we would be overnight Super Bowl contenders.

So do we handicap the team in a way by spending 25-30M on Cousins, or do we deplete our draft capital by trading a future R1 pick for Darnold/Rosen? Clearly I prefer the former to the latter. Even taking into account Darnold (Maybe even Rosen) falling to #5, I still think Cousins is the better option. Because best case scenario the QB develops into a Cousins like talent in a few years. The defense is aging, I say we just get that talent now.

Its surprising to me that so many people are willing to rely on drafting a QB when it has shown to be so shaky in the past. IMHO this is all moot because Elway cant afford to miss again on a QB so I believe he goes for the sure thing.

I agree every word here. Well said @BroncosFan2010!