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thebestever6

Is the Qb situation good enough?

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1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

That plan of a bridge qb for a rookie develop is probably the best one. Elway just mad 2 bad selection. Like I said the day elway lacks confidence to evaluate players and pull the trigger is the day he shouldn't be here anymore. 

You can think the bridge QB while a rookie tries to develop is the best but I'm here to tell you it is, by far, the least likely one this organization will take. 

In order of likelihood:

  • Option 1: Bid for and win the services of Kirk Cousins. Use the #5 pick on a difference maker (either one of the OTs or Barkley) or trade down and stockpile developmental talent. 

Why it makes sense: Cousins instantly solves the problem of starting QB for at least the next five years with, at the very worst, a good QB if not an elite one. Given the finances Cousins will tie up, stockpiling picks and players hopefully helps keep the cupboard stocked with inexpensive talent during their rookie deals, which overlap with Cousins' contract. 

  • Option 2: Draft one of the top 2 QBs (Rosen, Darnold), throw them to the wolves from day one and hopefully the learning curve isn't too steep, we see some flashes in 2018 and we're ready to contend in 2019. 

Why it only makes some sense: The rookie QB is going to be cheap, allowing us to spend money to fortify other positions on the roster where we are lacking. If this is the route we opt to go, I expect Rosen or Darnold to be the pick as those are the two are more day one ready (by a mile) than Allen or Mayfield. To land one of those two, it's quite likely we have to trade up, meaning we sacrifice other picks. It's a major roll of the dice as we would be sacrificing an awful lot. It could work for us (and it appears to have for Houston with DeShaun Watson) or it could blow up in our face (as it did for Washington with RG3). 

  • Option 3: Stand pat at #5 or trade down and draft Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield, allow them to sit and develop for a year or two while signing a mediocre veteran "bridge" QB to start next year. 

Why it's unlikely to happen: This is essentially what we've done the last two years, the organization does not want 2017 to be a repeat of 2018. The bridge QB is going to be unpopular, not help us win games, frustrate the fan base and lead to incessant calls to throw the rookie out there which could have the effect of ruining his confidence, the confidence of his teammates and the support of the fans. This is also the hardest option to sell to the fan base. It will also likely force Elway into a position where he has to fire Vance, costing this cash-strapped franchise more money. It is also not in keeping the business interests (requirements?) of the franchise, which as I've outlined now several times, requires a quick turnaround. 

Edited by AnAngryAmerican

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6 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

You can think the bridge QB while a rookie tries to develop is the best but I'm here to tell you it is, by far, the least likely one this organization will take. 

In order of likelihood:

  • Option 1: Bid for and win the services of Kirk Cousins. Use the #5 pick on a difference maker (either one of the OTs or Barkley) or trade down and stockpile developmental talent. 

Why it makes sense: Cousins instantly solves the problem of starting QB for at least the next five years with, at the very worst, a good QB if not an elite one. Given the finances Cousins will tie up, stockpiling picks and players hopefully helps keep the cupboard stocked with inexpensive talent during their rookie deals, which overlap with Cousins' contract. 

  • Option 2: Draft one of the top 2 QBs (Rosen, Darnold), throw them to the wolves from day one and hopefully the learning curve isn't too steep, we some flashes in 2018 and we're ready to contend in 2019. 

Why it only makes some sense: The rookie QB is going to be cheap, allowing us to spend money to fortify other positions on the roster where we are lacking. If this is the route we opt to go, I expect Rosen or Darnold to be the pick as those are the two are more day one ready (by a mile) than Allen or Mayfield. To land one of those two, it's quite likely we have to trade up, meaning we sacrifice other picks. It's a major roll of the dice as we would be sacrificing an awful lot. It could work for us (and it appears to have for Houston with DeShaun Watson) or it could blow up in our face (as it did for Washington with RG3). 

  • Option 3: Stand pat at #5 or trade down and draft Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield, allow them to sit and develop for a year or two while signing a mediocre veteran "bridge" QB to start next year. 

Why it's unlikely to happen: This is essentially what we've done the last two years, the organization does not want 2017 to be a repeat of 2018. The bridge QB is going to be unpopular, not help us win games, frustrate the fan base and lead to incessant calls to throw the rookie out there which could have the effect of ruining his confidence, the confidence of his teammates and the support of the fans. This is also the hardest option to sell to the fan base. It will also likely force Elway into a position where he has to fire Vance, costing this cash-strapped franchise more money. It is also not in keeping the business interests (requirements?) of the franchise, which as I've outlined now several times, requires a quick turnaround. 

Option 4: Convince Tim Tebow to remove himself from his baseball career to start for the Denver Broncos to carry them to playoffs, while each week we all suffer a bit from mild heart attacks from Tebow's late game heroic game winning antics...only to find out the next year that Philip Rivers is available and he would take over for Tebow so that he can be the missing link to a few Super Bowl runs, where Philip can get himself a few rings.  

 

Edited by jsthomp2007

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That makes sense, take a look at the players who have the potential to be there at our pick. Elway is doing is due diligence by getting as long of a look at a potential pick as we can. 

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Elway should be getting Allen, Mayfield and any other QB on the North Roster with any inkling of being drafted, if possible.   Hopefully it doesn't mean he's locked in - more that he can really take a long hard look under the hood at the Senior Bowl guys.  

@BroncosFan2010 & @AnAngryAmerican already summarized the Cousins argument, so no need to go there.   Just to be clear, there's risk in any approach taken - as @AKRNA has pointed out, the $ allocated to QB means that we can't spend it elsewhere.   And yeah, the SB record is scary - although, if NO wins, that blows it out of the water, with Brees.   But Brees & NO is a good counter - NO's surge coincided with perhaps one of the best all-time drafts to beef up the O and the D this year (and a very successful draft last year).    Paying top 10 $ for a top 10 QB does mean you have to find the values elsewhere - NO's done it with the draft.   And it's no coincidence they went pure overall BPA (missed on Foster when SF sniped them, didn't get ILB or defender, went Ramczyk at 1.32).    Paying top $ to Brees (even though ironically he's actually not the cornerstone to that O anymore), they've had to rebuild on the cheap - and have done a magnificent job by hitting home runs for OL, RB, S, WR, DL and shutdown CB the last 2 years....all through the Draft in Days 1, 2 & 3.   Just gotta tip your cap...and hope Elway was paying attention.

At the same time, you whiff on Rd1 for QB, well we already know it cost us 2016-17.   And if we have to trade up, then yes, it impacts us even longer.   In the end, it's about which risk you are willing to take.   I'm actually OK if we get Darnold/Rosen (assuming Darnold's hands are tiny) - but I don't know that we can get them..and I don't know if Elway is patient enough to go through the lumps that Darnold/Rosen would likely encounter Year 1 (remember, even Wentz had serious growing pains in 2016), especially if we have to trade up to 1.2 or higher to get either guy.   Obviously I'm OK with Cousins too, as I see him a 2018 elite guy moving forward - he's already nearly there now.  But I also get he costs so much, it puts a major burden on Elway to draft well elsewhere - and he's failed badly since going to need-based drafting, and continuing the practice to lock on.  But I'll take either Curtain A or B for sure.   

Curtain C is what kinda terrifies me - that we waste 1.5 on a pick that's not only not worth 1.5, but busts out completely.    THAT would be more than a 2-year setback, given the elite non-QB talent we likely would be passing up on.    Frankly, it terrifies me enough that I'd hope if we miss on Cousins, that stopgap 1-year guy and just going with overall BPA (and at 1.5, I really don't see anyone not named Darnold or Rosen at QB) is far, far more preferable than reaching for need at QB 1.5 (Rosen falling for iffy flags would be a dream scenario IMO).

Edited by Broncofan

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It really comes down to two options -

1. Pay Cousins and then draft what's needed on the roster

2. Trade up for one of the top 2 QBs and then use FA to find what's needed on the roster

my preference is option 1 - it think it's the easier one to succeed at.

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1 hour ago, jolly red giant said:

It really comes down to two options -

1. Pay Cousins and then draft what's needed on the roster

2. Trade up for one of the top 2 QBs and then use FA to find what's needed on the roster

my preference is option 1 - it think it's the easier one to succeed at.

If by success you mean reaching the playoffs or going 1 and done I agree. But if success is measured on title I very much disagree.

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I'm  sorry there is smoke in the Kyle Sloter is good camp. Guy was kept on the Vikings 53 even with Bradford coming back. Thats so rare for a team to keep 4 qbs. Vikings see something im him and they have 3 other good qbs so I'm not shocked if he's their long term answer.

Edited by thebestever6

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6 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I'm  sorry there is smoke in the Kyle Sloter is good camp. Guy was kept on the Vikings 53 even with Bradford coming back. Thats so rare for a team to keep 4 qbs. Vikings see something im him and they have 3 other good qbs so I'm not shocked if he's their long term answer.

They have no QB's signed next year except Sloter.   Until they need the space (and they haven't, fortunate to have few non-IR injuries), it makes sense to protect him.   Doesn't mean more than he's a potential cheap backup where they literally have no certain options for 2018.  He's just another GD inactive, so literally no diff for them this year, given they have 2 games left and no roster crunch.

Given what's gone down, it's most likely it's Keenum as the starter, and then Sloter as the backup.   Teddy B and Bradford will be too expensive to bring as backups there.  

Edited by Broncofan

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6 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

They have no QB's signed next year except Sloter.   Until they need the space (and they haven't, fortunate to have few non-IR injuries), it makes sense to protect him.   Doesn't mean more than he's a potential cheap backup where they literally have no certain options for 2018.  He's just another GD inactive, so literally no diff for them this year, given they have 2 games left and no roster crunch.

Given what's gone down, it's most likely it's Keenum as the starter, and then Sloter as the backup.   Teddy B and Bradford will be too expensive to bring as backups there.  

Makes sense a part of me still thinks they still like Bradford he was active over teddy. Or are they that down on both? Teddy is imo either made of glass or is the shell of the once promising player.

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41 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Makes sense a part of me still thinks they still like Bradford he was active over teddy. Or are they that down on both? Teddy is imo either made of glass or is the shell of the once promising player.

It probably says more about Teddy then it does about Bradford.   After missing Oct-Dec and only 2 weeks of scrimmages, to be given the backup job back over Teddy who has been practicing for weeks on end, probably means Teddy has a lot more rust than Bradford did.   Either way, neither guy is likely staying in MIN - you can't pay them what the market rates will give them to be the backup, and while his 2H INT would have cost them the game, the narrative is that Keenum brought them to the NFCG, there's literally no going back now.   Unless Keenum gets insanely greedy (and I doubt that happens), he's staying in MIN.   MIN going with either of the other 2 unless there's insane $ being asked for,  well it would be a PR disaster.  

Edited by Broncofan

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16 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

It probably says more about Teddy then it does about Bradford.   After missing Oct-Dec and only 2 weeks of scrimmages, to be given the backup job back over Teddy who has been practicing for weeks on end, probably means Teddy has a lot more rust than Bradford did.   Either way, neither guy is likely staying in MIN - you can't pay them what the market rates will give them to be the backup, and while his 2H INT would have cost them the game, the narrative is that Keenum brought them to the NFCG, there's literally no going back now.   Unless Keenum gets insanely greedy (and I doubt that happens), he's staying in MIN.   MIN going with either of the other 2 unless there's insane $ being asked for,  well it would be a PR disaster.  

I thought Scroter was the  backup? 

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4 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

I thought Sloter was the  backup? 

He hasn't dressed since Teddy B (then Bradford) returned and were activated.   He's been their 3rd (and now 4th)-string QB.  But he's likely their 2nd stringer headed into 2018.   MIN isn't going to pay 2 of those 3 guys ahead of him as they are all UFA's, only 1 guy is staying as the starter. 

Edited by Broncofan

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