DreamKid Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, Danand said: Don't use statistics as a drunk uses a lamppost, as support instead of illumination. If stats told the whole story, Flacco would not have the results he has. Otherwise, you would have to accept, that the Ravens have had so much talent on offense and defense for 10 years to carry Flacco to 6 PO appearances, 7 winning seasons and just 1 losing season. The Flacco detractors are too far gone at this point, there is no reasoning. My favorite trend lately is this '2014 never happened' stuff, because it fits the "He's sucked since the Super Bowl" narrative. They don't acknowledge improvements from him throughout the season as he got farther away from the back injury and act like he didn't drop a single dime in 16 games. Flacco showed he wasn't broken this season and you'd think fans of the team would be happy about still having a QB we can ride into the playoffs. They better hope we don't acquire some actual receivers next year or they'll be forced to follow a team in the playoffs, which seems like the one thing they don't want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, Danand said: Don't use statistics as a drunk uses a lamppost, as support instead of illumination. If stats told the whole story, Flacco would not have the results he has. Otherwise, you would have to accept, that the Ravens have had so much talent on offense and defense for 10 years to carry Flacco to 6 PO appearances, 7 winning seasons and just 1 losing season. Flacco's winning seasons: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2017. In 5 of the 7 winning seasons, Flacco had Ray Lewis and Ed Reed on his team. One other is Gary Kubiak, where Flacco was used as a complimentary piece and able to use the effective run game to setup play action shots down the field. The objective truth about the Ravens with Flacco is that they do best when Flacco is not the primary piece of the puzzle. In his most successful seasons (2010 and 2014), you had successful run games that were the focus of the offense. And again, what "results" are we talking about here? Wins and losses? Playoff appearances? There's no denying the disparity of winning seasons/playoff appearances from 2008-2012 and 2013-2017. Post 2012, the Ravens had to undergo a transformation and made Flacco the centerpiece of the offense and organization, and how has that worked out? 2013 was a disaster. 2014 I've already mentioned. 2015 was a disaster. 2016 was a disaster, and 2017 was no better. The results haven't been there for basically every year post 2012. Nobody's ignoring 2014 like it didn't happen, it's just that right now, when you examine 2014 along with 2013, 2015, 2016, and 2017, it looks like an anomaly and it's not hard to see why. That's all I'm saying. Someone wanted an explanation for why Flacco's had the career he's had despite being bad, and I offered one possible explanation for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, DreamKid said: The Flacco detractors are too far gone at this point, there is no reasoning. My favorite trend lately is this '2014 never happened' stuff, because it fits the "He's sucked since the Super Bowl" narrative. They don't acknowledge improvements from him throughout the season as he got farther away from the back injury and act like he didn't drop a single dime in 16 games. Flacco showed he wasn't broken this season and you'd think fans of the team would be happy about still having a QB we can ride into the playoffs. They better hope we don't acquire some actual receivers next year or they'll be forced to follow a team in the playoffs, which seems like the one thing they don't want to do. 2014 happened, but it doesn't excuse 2013, 2015, 2016, and the first 10 weeks of 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Flacco's winning seasons: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2017. In 5 of the 7 winning seasons, Flacco had Ray Lewis and Ed Reed on his team. One other is Gary Kubiak, where Flacco was used as a complimentary piece and able to use the effective run game to setup play action shots down the field. The objective truth about the Ravens with Flacco is that they do best when Flacco is not the primary piece of the puzzle. In his most successful seasons (2010 and 2014), you had successful run games that were the focus of the offense. And again, what "results" are we talking about here? Wins and losses? Playoff appearances? There's no denying the disparity of winning seasons/playoff appearances from 2008-2012 and 2013-2017. Post 2012, the Ravens had to undergo a transformation and made Flacco the centerpiece of the offense and organization, and how has that worked out? 2013 was a disaster. 2014 I've already mentioned. 2015 was a disaster. 2016 was a disaster, and 2017 was no better. The results haven't been there for basically every year post 2012. Nobody's ignoring 2014 like it didn't happen, it's just that right now, when you examine 2014 along with 2013, 2015, 2016, and 2017, it looks like an anomaly and it's not hard to see why. That's all I'm saying. Someone wanted an explanation for why Flacco's had the career he's had despite being bad, and I offered one possible explanation for that. you offered weird opinions about how Reed and Lewis somehow played offense or made the offense better. And just because we had a running game in 2014, it shouldn't take anything from Flacco who played well, and certainly made a difference in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: 2014 happened, but it doesn't excuse 2013, 2015, 2016, and the first 10 weeks of 2017. 2013, we fielded a historically bad oline, not just for our franchise but for the entire nfl. I think we actually set some sort of record with that oline. Yet we managed to go 8-8. Then we bounced back, then we lost flacco to injury which was in a really bad year. He came back quick from a torn acl and mcl and it showed, and he again performed better in the second half of the season, not a world beater, but effective enough with a huge lack of weapons around him. This year, the offense was colder than cold for streaks of 9 games, and after the bye they did more than enough with the abundance of playmakers on the field. Had we invested a lot in an oline and the skill positions and Flacco didn't perform, like if he had a Carr 2017 year after year, you might have had a point. But he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Peyton Manning won 1 of his 2 Super Bowls as a game manager, so I’m okay with those. I don’t need a star quarterback. Just one that can do his job and only be a hero when we need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Danand said: you offered weird opinions about how Reed and Lewis somehow played offense or made the offense better. And just because we had a running game in 2014, it shouldn't take anything from Flacco who played well, and certainly made a difference in the playoffs. They didn't make the offense better, that was mainly Ray Rice. However, they did make the defense better, which was huge in Flacco's first few years. 2014 doesn't take away from Flacco playing well, but it does offer context in that Flacco played well because he was a complimentary piece and not the main focus, which has been a theme throughout his entire career when he plays well. Take this year for example - Flacco started playing well a) as he got further away from his back injury, and b) when our running game started to pick up and produce more. Everyone knows Flacco plays well in the playoffs, that's not really a secret and it's not explainable either. However, when evaluating his career as a whole, you can't just ignore the regular season, and for the first 5 years of his career, he was largely carried to the playoffs. When that wasn't able to happen anymore post 2012, the Ravens have struggled, and as a result have turned more to Flacco to carry the team there and he hasn't been able to get it done a single time he's been asked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Danand said: 2013, we fielded a historically bad oline, not just for our franchise but for the entire nfl. I think we actually set some sort of record with that oline. Yet we managed to go 8-8. Then we bounced back, then we lost flacco to injury which was in a really bad year. He came back quick from a torn acl and mcl and it showed, and he again performed better in the second half of the season, not a world beater, but effective enough with a huge lack of weapons around him. This year, the offense was colder than cold for streaks of 9 games, and after the bye they did more than enough with the abundance of playmakers on the field. Had we invested a lot in an oline and the skill positions and Flacco didn't perform, like if he had a Carr 2017 year after year, you might have had a point. But he doesn't. You can make all the excuses you want, but the reality is the same. You can't just continue making excuses for 2013, 2015, 2016, and most of 2017 and then just attribute 2014 to Flacco being good without evaluating the other things. 10 years into his career, what do you expect Flacco to somehow become that he hasn't been in the past 10 years? He is what he is at this point, which is a below-average QB in the regular season who is capable in the playoffs. That's it. In order for the Ravens to succeed, you shouldn't build around Flacco and hope he puts together a 4,000 yard, 30 TD season. You have to build the running game and allow him to be a complimentary piece with the defense until the playoffs roll around. It's been proven time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chargerbuckeye Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 You guys need a RB, or a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfields Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 40 wins, 40 losses since the Super Bowl. Offensive ranking (total yards): 2014 - 12th. 2015 - 14th. 2016 - 17th. 2017 - 27th. You guys rationalize poor play like a husband defending a cheating wife. “Our honeymoon was amazing. Now she’s sleeping with the neighbor but she still cooks me dinner every night.” Would you dump her? Bottom line: The chances of Flacco ever beating 4 playoff caliber teams and winning another Super Bowl is slim to none. The guy can’t even put together 4 good regular season games. How many back QBs did the Ravens beat this year to scrape out a 9-7 season? Let him play out the 2 years we’re stuck with him but draft his replacement now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Quote The chances of Flacco ever beating 4 playoff caliber teams and winning another Super Bowl is slim to none. This is the only place where I disagree. I think he could do it again, and he's proven over and over that once he's in the playoffs, he will elevate his game. The thing that I think is slim to none is Flacco leading this team to the playoffs. He's never done it, and probably never will. Ask Flacco to beat a mediocre at home in the regular season to clinch you a playoff spot? Large chance it doesn't happen. Ask Flacco to beat the Patriots on the road in the playoffs and he'll go out and throw for 300 yards and 3 TD's. It's unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 32 minutes ago, dcfields said: You guys rationalize poor play like a husband defending a cheating wife. “Our honeymoon was amazing. Now she’s sleeping with the neighbor but she still cooks me dinner every night.” Would you dump her? , Why would that comparison even pop into your head. Things all right at home? Saying things like, "He's playing better post injury", and "He needs more weapons", seem fairly sane to me. Extenuating circumstances aren't something only a faction within the Raven's fandom analyze. Why don't Brady, Rodgers, and Brees have the same stats every year? The players around them, injuries, coordinators, defensive performance, it all plays a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, DreamKid said: , Why would that comparison even pop into your head. Things all right at home? Saying things like, "He's playing better post injury", and "He needs more weapons", seem fairly sane to me. Extenuating circumstances aren't something only a faction within the Raven's fandom analyze. Why don't Brady, Rodgers, and Brees have the same stats every year? The players around them, injuries, coordinators, defensive performance, it all plays a role. What was the point of this? Yeah, their stats change but overall there's consistency and trends. Same with Flacco, except in his case the trends are bad instead of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTazeMeBro Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Does anyone know how often we use a FB or a 2nd or 3rd TE compared to the rest of the league? I bet it’s a **** load more than the average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said: Does anyone know how often we use a FB or a 2nd or 3rd TE compared to the rest of the league? I bet it’s a **** load more than the average https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/personnel-grouping-frequency.html So when you adjust the RB's slider to 1 and the TE slider to 2, we have run the most plays with that personnel (meaning no FB and at least 1 RB and 2 TE's), at 373 plays. Adjusting the slider to 2 RB's and at least 2 TE's, we've run the 2nd most (PIT is #1) with 71 plays. Overall I think we're very near the top in our FB/multiple TE usage this year. EDIT: Our two most common personnel groupings were 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR (67% of all plays) and 1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR (35% of all plays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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