Draft Conundrum

[DreamKid]

16 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

What was the point of this? Yeah, their stats change but overall there's consistency and trends. Same with Flacco, except in his case the trends are bad instead of good.

Flacco having the team up in the 4th quarter every game post bye this season, that a bad trend?

 

[DreamKid]

@DontTazeMeBro

Johnny Sack, when will he return?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, DreamKid said:

Flacco having the team up in the 4th quarter every game post bye this season, that a bad trend?

Is there somewhere I can examine this vs. his career, or is that something you manually looked up yourself? My gut is telling me that this "trend" is likely to stop come next September.

[DreamKid]

1 minute ago, Darth Pees said:

Is there somewhere I can examine this vs. his career, or is that something you manually looked up yourself? My gut is telling me that this "trend" is likely to stop come next September.

It's something I remembered quite easily, because it was so obvious the defense failed us this year. Despite that side of the ball being the focal point of the off season while the offense and Flacco were largely neglected, which makes this discussion even more silly. As for past seasons I don't remember, and I can't wait for next year when teams will have to face a Peesless D and all our corners. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

It's something I remembered quite easily, because it was so obvious the defense failed us this year. Despite that side of the ball being the focal point of the off season while the offense and Flacco were largely neglected, which makes this discussion even more silly. As for past seasons I don't remember, and I can't wait for next year when teams will have to face a Peesless D and all our corners. 

As much as the defense failed us down the stretch, they were very much the reason why we won any games in the first 9 weeks of the season, so it's silly to pin all the blame on them for our season while ignoring how much of a crutch our offense was for almost the entire year. Even in some key spurts down the stretch where we needed one first down, or maybe a touchdown, or to run some clock off, the offense couldn't do anything. It was very much a tale of 2 seasons for this team. 

[DreamKid]

2 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

As much as the defense failed us down the stretch, they were very much the reason why we won any games in the first 9 weeks of the season, so it's silly to pin all the blame on them for our season while ignoring how much of a crutch our offense was for almost the entire year. Even in some key spurts down the stretch where we needed one first down, or maybe a touchdown, or to run some clock off, the offense couldn't do anything. It was very much a tale of 2 seasons for this team. 

Now imagine if Joe Flacco didn't get inured, we didn't have injuries ravage our O Line(remember their solid play and solidified unit didn't come together until late in the year), and that in those key situations and early weeks we had better options/weapons and play calling(Boyle screens). It paints a much different picture. Doesn't mean we don't need to identify our future at QB, we do. Doesn't mean Flacco shouldn't be expected to perform at a higher level, he should. We just need to keep things in perspective.

[Danand]

21 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

As much as the defense failed us down the stretch, they were very much the reason why we won any games in the first 9 weeks of the season, so it's silly to pin all the blame on them for our season while ignoring how much of a crutch our offense was for almost the entire year. Even in some key spurts down the stretch where we needed one first down, or maybe a touchdown, or to run some clock off, the offense couldn't do anything. It was very much a tale of 2 seasons for this team. 

You are only weighing the negatives to suit your point that Flacco is bad. You are reaching, reaching bad. You mention we only played backup QB's. Flacco played against defenses, sry to tel you.

It might not be the best defenses, which helped his play compared to facing better defenses like the Jaguars, Vikings, Bears in the first part of the season, but yeah, he did well and in the end it was the defense which failed.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

10 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Now imagine if Joe Flacco didn't get inured, we didn't have injuries ravage our O Line(remember their solid play and solidified unit didn't come together until late in the year), and that in those key situations and early weeks we had better options/weapons and play calling(Boyle screens). It paints a much different picture. Doesn't mean we don't need to identify our future at QB, we do. Doesn't mean Flacco shouldn't be expected to perform at a higher level, he should. We just need to keep things in perspective.

Also imagine if Joe Flacco was just better in the regular season in general. That would be great, too. BTW, we were still calling screens for Nick Boyle late in the year, too. That didn't go away. I absolutely agree with the last few sentences there, though. This entire conversation started because of a Mike Preston article laying out the things wrong with Flacco lol and ultimately I was just pointing that while he takes things to the extreme, he's not wrong about a lot of that stuff.

Just now, Danand said:

You are only weighing the negatives to suit your point that Flacco is bad. You are reaching, reaching bad. You mention we only played backup QB's. Flacco played against defenses, sry to tel you.

It might not be the best defenses, which helped his play compared to facing better defenses like the Jaguars, Vikings, Bears in the first part of the season, but yeah, he did well and in the end it was the defense which failed.

Where did I say we only played against backup QB's in this thread? I am well aware that Flacco faced defenses, but in the grand scheme of things if we're facing backup QB's most of the season and the defense is constantly getting turnovers and 3 and outs, do you think that helps make the offense look better or no? Statistically, the closer you start to the endzone, the better your chance of scoring is, so obviously it helps when your defense is constantly giving you good field position and/or turnovers.

Now, let's take look at the defenses Flacco faced this year and where they ranked in terms of passing DVOA:

Cinci x2: 17/32

Cleveland x2: 27/32

Pittsburgh x2: 8/32

Jaguars: 1/32

Raiders: 30/32

Bears: 14/32

Vikings: 4/32

Dolphins: 29/32

Titans: 24/32

Lions: 16/32

Packers: 26/32

Texans: 25/32

Colts: 32/32

That's 4 top-10 DVOA defenses we faced (we lost every game, btw) while playing 8 games against teams ranked 20th or below in passing DVOA.

We're all in agreement that in the end of the year, it was the defense that ultimately let us down. However, what's often forgotten is that the offense was literally unwatchable for almost half the year, which if we had won just one of those games, we wouldn't even be sitting here. Can't pin that on the defense when your offense is ranked 26th in passing DVOA and your defense is ranked 2nd in DVOA. The defense did it's job for most of the season, the offense did not. End of story.

[diamondbull424]

I actually agree with the point that Flacco shouldn’t be the main point of our teams success. My only issue is with people believing that because he gets paid 20 million a year that he should be asked to be an elite passer. That’s the going amount for a capable quarterback. Flacco with a great running game and a solid defense will Manager the game well enough consistently to get us to the playoffs.

Sure, is $20 million a lot of money? Yes. Is it wrong that quarterbacks get paid so much money in comparison to other positions, I think so. But does he win? That’s the only trend that matters. And long term trends say yes. The past season’s trend says yes. Regardless of how it happened, the team went 9-7 and he led a second half comeback to put us in position to win a 10th. He’s a winner.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I actually agree with the point that Flacco shouldn’t be the main point of our teams success. My only issue is with people believing that because he gets paid 20 million a year that he should be asked to be an elite passer. That’s the going amount for a capable quarterback. Flacco with a great running game and a solid defense will Manager the game well enough consistently to get us to the playoffs.

Sure, is $20 million a lot of money? Yes. Is it wrong that quarterbacks get paid so much money in comparison to other positions, I think so. But does he win? That’s the only trend that matters. And long term trends say yes. The past season’s trend says yes. Regardless of how it happened, the team went 9-7 and he led a second half comeback to put us in position to win a 10th. He’s a winner.

I would argue that Flacco's current contract and cap hit puts him in the area of QB's who are expected to perform at a high level (he has the 3rd highest cap hit of any QB in the NFL in 2018) not just be complimentary/backseat pieces. I agree we should be using him as that, but the contract they're giving him doesn't paint that same picture. They're paying him to be "the guy" and he's just not that.

[dcfields]

3 hours ago, DreamKid said:

 

, Why would that comparison even pop into your head. Things all right at home?

 

 

 Things couldn’t be better. But then again, I’m not the one defending poor performance and acting like nothing’s wrong.

It’s baffling to me that so many people in this forum are willing to stick up for someone who’s performance has been consistently below average. I would think that more of you would be aligned to my thinking. The offense has been garbage for years and you’re defending the common denominator.

I shouldn’t have to defend expecting more. DB’s statement about not needing a hero (Manning) doesn’t cut it with me (What’s up, DB? Been awhile). “You 52 guys play lights out while the most important guy on the team plays below average.” That’s asking an awful lot from everybody else. And our defense isn’t as good as Denver’s championship team. And neither are our offensive coaches.

Year in and year out, I watch QBs from other teams outplay a 1 year veteran. Both of Brady’s backups, Keenum, Russell Wilson, Dan Prescott, Derek Carr... NONE of them were 1st round picks.

And here we are stuck with a bottom 10 QB sucking up 1/7th of the salary cap. It sucks!

[Danand]

6 hours ago, dcfields said:

 Things couldn’t be better. But then again, I’m not the one defending poor performance and acting like nothing’s wrong.

It’s baffling to me that so many people in this forum are willing to stick up for someone who’s performance has been consistently below average. I would think that more of you would be aligned to my thinking. The offense has been garbage for years and you’re defending the common denominator.

I shouldn’t have to defend expecting more. DB’s statement about not needing a hero (Manning) doesn’t cut it with me (What’s up, DB? Been awhile). “You 52 guys play lights out while the most important guy on the team plays below average.” That’s asking an awful lot from everybody else. And our defense isn’t as good as Denver’s championship team. And neither are our offensive coaches.

Year in and year out, I watch QBs from other teams outplay a 1 year veteran. Both of Brady’s backups, Keenum, Russell Wilson, Dan Prescott, Derek Carr... NONE of them were 1st round picks.

And here we are stuck with a bottom 10 QB sucking up 1/7th of the salary cap. It sucks!

Jimmy G played really well - in 4 games. Flacco had streaks like that as well, but lets see, the arrow is pointing in the right direction for Jimmy.

Wilson is amazing, and yet he fails to win because he doesn't have a running game. He also has halfs where his offense doesn't put up any points. Also, the amount of times he was bailed out by wr on hail marys this year, it heavily exceeds contested catches made by our wide receivers. Keenum is in a perfect position to play QB this year with that defense and solid running game. Prescott suddenly performed much worse without the elite oline/Elliot. Carr was even worse than Flaccos first games in 2017.

Everything only support my claim, that Flacco as most QB's need support to win. When he has that, he actually does win and does it more than many other QB's over the last 9 years.

You act like we had so much talent on both sides of the ball for all of Flaccos years, and he have been the one pulling the team down. I guess we should stop arguing about the FA aquisitions and draft picks because they are just superb, but can't help that much because of our terrible quarterback.

Jebus.

[Danand]

8 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

Also imagine if Joe Flacco was just better in the regular season in general. That would be great, too. BTW, we were still calling screens for Nick Boyle late in the year, too. That didn't go away. I absolutely agree with the last few sentences there, though. This entire conversation started because of a Mike Preston article laying out the things wrong with Flacco lol and ultimately I was just pointing that while he takes things to the extreme, he's not wrong about a lot of that stuff.

Where did I say we only played against backup QB's in this thread? I am well aware that Flacco faced defenses, but in the grand scheme of things if we're facing backup QB's most of the season and the defense is constantly getting turnovers and 3 and outs, do you think that helps make the offense look better or no? Statistically, the closer you start to the endzone, the better your chance of scoring is, so obviously it helps when your defense is constantly giving you good field position and/or turnovers.

Now, let's take look at the defenses Flacco faced this year and where they ranked in terms of passing DVOA:

Cinci x2: 17/32

Cleveland x2: 27/32

Pittsburgh x2: 8/32

Jaguars: 1/32

Raiders: 30/32

Bears: 14/32

Vikings: 4/32

Dolphins: 29/32

Titans: 24/32

Lions: 16/32

Packers: 26/32

Texans: 25/32

Colts: 32/32

That's 4 top-10 DVOA defenses we faced (we lost every game, btw) while playing 8 games against teams ranked 20th or below in passing DVOA.

We're all in agreement that in the end of the year, it was the defense that ultimately let us down. However, what's often forgotten is that the offense was literally unwatchable for almost half the year, which if we had won just one of those games, we wouldn't even be sitting here. Can't pin that on the defense when your offense is ranked 26th in passing DVOA and your defense is ranked 2nd in DVOA. The defense did it's job for most of the season, the offense did not. End of story.

There are what, 3-4 interceptions to TD's/long returns against the Bears, Titans and Bengals, which where huge point swings, which can be put on Flacco.

Unless you ofc say it was on him and he shouldn't have made those throws.

Story is, he did enough in the first 2 games to win because our defense balled out, he had an excuse coming off back surgery - that excuse didn't have an affect in the last 7 games where he played well.

Against the Raiders, Flacco also wasn't blamed - people actually talked about how the Ravens were back to normal on offense. We were never in the game against the Jaguars - that loss is on everybody, Tom Brady wouldn't have made a difference in that game. Now the rest of the games, a better Flacco and offense in general would certainly have helped.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 hours ago, Danand said:

Jimmy G played really well - in 4 games. Flacco had streaks like that as well, but lets see, the arrow is pointing in the right direction for Jimmy.

Wilson is amazing, and yet he fails to win because he doesn't have a running game. He also has halfs where his offense doesn't put up any points. Also, the amount of times he was bailed out by wr on hail marys this year, it heavily exceeds contested catches made by our wide receivers. Keenum is in a perfect position to play QB this year with that defense and solid running game. Prescott suddenly performed much worse without the elite oline/Elliot. Carr was even worse than Flaccos first games in 2017.

Everything only support my claim, that Flacco as most QB's need support to win. When he has that, he actually does win and does it more than many other QB's over the last 9 years.

You act like we had so much talent on both sides of the ball for all of Flaccos years, and he have been the one pulling the team down. I guess we should stop arguing about the FA aquisitions and draft picks because they are just superb, but can't help that much because of our terrible quarterback.

Jebus.

Uhhhh did you even watch Russell Wilson this year? I can think of one play where he was "bailed out" by Doug Baldwin and that's it. Russell Wilson was the leading rusher on his own team this year and accounted for 80+% of their total offensive yardage AND all but one of their offensive touchdowns this year, and they still won 9 games EVEN WITH a much harder schedule than us and missing Cliff Avril, Malik McDowell, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, and Deshaun Shead. That guy carried his team the likes of which Flacco could only dream of doing.

7 hours ago, Danand said:

There are what, 3-4 interceptions to TD's/long returns against the Bears, Titans and Bengals, which where huge point swings, which can be put on Flacco.

Unless you ofc say it was on him and he shouldn't have made those throws.

Story is, he did enough in the first 2 games to win because our defense balled out, he had an excuse coming off back surgery - that excuse didn't have an affect in the last 7 games where he played well.

Against the Raiders, Flacco also wasn't blamed - people actually talked about how the Ravens were back to normal on offense. We were never in the game against the Jaguars - that loss is on everybody, Tom Brady wouldn't have made a difference in that game. Now the rest of the games, a better Flacco and offense in general would certainly have helped.

The real story is that despite facing a cupcake schedule of defenses, our offense still finished ranked 26th in passing DVOA and largely did nothing for much of the season, in large part because Joe Flacco and the passing offense gave us absolutely nothing to work with.

[Danand]

19 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

Uhhhh did you even watch Russell Wilson this year? I can think of one play where he was "bailed out" by Doug Baldwin and that's it. Russell Wilson was the leading rusher on his own team this year and accounted for 80+% of their total offensive yardage AND all but one of their offensive touchdowns this year, and they still won 9 games EVEN WITH a much harder schedule than us and missing Cliff Avril, Malik McDowell, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman, and Deshaun Shead. That guy carried his team the likes of which Flacco could only dream of doing.

The real story is that despite facing a cupcake schedule of defenses, our offense still finished ranked 26th in passing DVOA and largely did nothing for much of the season, in large part because Joe Flacco and the passing offense gave us absolutely nothing to work with.

The REAL story is, that despite missing so many starters on offense and having almost no contribution from the wide receiver core, Flacco managed to get decent production out of no names.

The Seahawks/Wilson homer you are, ofc you won't recognize how many times Wilson was bailed out of throws by amazing catches from his wide receivers. The Texans game alone had a handful.