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2018 NFL Draft Discussion


squire12

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3 hours ago, Rodjahs12 said:

I’m way higher on Dorance Armstrong than the rest of this board seems to be. Much lower on Landry on the contrary. 

You have to go back and watch the 2016 tape for Harold Landry.  Played pretty much the entire 2017 season on a bum ankle that clearly affected his play.

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6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Honestly, hard to be disappointed with any of those guys.  All have their issues which could lead them to being available.

Have you done a prospect profile on any of them yet? And who are your guys that you’d be looking at?

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5 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

Have you done a prospect profile on any of them yet? And who are your guys that you’d be looking at?

Haven't done a ton of detail into them, but I know enough to hold my own in a discussion on them.  Harold Landry is probably the most interesting player for me.  Elite bend and that first step gives him high upside as a pass rusher.  Doesn't really hold well at the POA, particularly during a double team.  Shows good understanding of leverage and solid fundamentals in run defense, but his lack of strength is readily apparent.  Shown some ability to drop back in coverage.  Davenport probably is the other end of the spectrum.  Power game is clearly there already, shown a very effective bull rush.  Hasn't displayed that bend that Landry has consistently.  Probably higher risk, but higher reward with Davenport.

Right now, I'm looking at Derwin James, Harold Landry, and Marcus Davenport are three guys I think are guys we should keep an eye on.  I don't think the Packers are in on Arden Key unless it's later on in the draft.  Something about Derwin James seems like a very real possibility, although that pretty much commits Josh Jones into that SS role.  Are we willing to do that?

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Taking a look at some Josh Jackson, CB, Iowa, tonight.

Pros: Obvious ball skills as everyone knows. WR quality hands. Very good in his zone as a perimeter CB- only saw him get beat once in the five games I watched (WI, PSU, OSU, NEB, ISU).  Keeps his eyes in the backfield. Knows how to hide and fire off the perimeter as a blitzer. When he knows he isn't going to get home he plays passing lanes. Does a good job for the most part staying on his man's hip in man coverage, although Iowa played probably 65/35 Zone/Man. Plays the fade in the RZ very well with that size. Opportunistic as hell with turnovers. Great hips. 

Cons: If there was any physical interaction between him and the offensive player, theres a 95% chance he lost that battle. He doesn't really jam. He has poor tackling form.  He's a pure boundary, south to north CB. Only saw him line up in the slot for two snaps. Stands flat footed at times in zone coverage but hasn't hurt him yet. Hips are there but the few shallow drags ran against him in man were open. Couple of plays highlighted below to illustrate.

2:15 - Business decision on tackling Kendrick Pryor who is 6'1 175 LBS.

2:40 - Good punch gets the ball free for Taylor.

5:00 - Not a form tackler. 

3:40 pancaked by a WR. 

4:46 you got played, son.

2:45 - That's how you play zone defense. 

5:35 - Play of the year. 

I won't link them but 2:26 Nebraska---thats your zone, bruh. 3:30 Nebraska--you were toasted. 0:10 Iowa St--finally made a clean stop. 3:25--Iowa St 

Summary/Fit: Playmaking CB with size and ball skills. Jackson is best as a zone, boundary CB where he can be elite. But keep him away from contact like the plague. I do not think he would be good value at pick 14 because of his lack of physicality and inability to play the slot. But I'd be glad to see someone this opportunistic around pick 20. 

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

You have to go back and watch the 2016 tape for Harold Landry.  Played pretty much the entire 2017 season on a bum ankle that clearly affected his play.

Fair point. I have my concerns but my post was more about trying to start a discussion on Armstrong as I honestly can’t remember seeing him discussed here yet while every other edge player has been beaten to death already. 

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2 minutes ago, HighCalebR said:

Armstrong is steady in mocks around here.. he's another guy you kind of have to go through a lot of tape on because his surroundings are pretty poor. Are you 1st round high on Armstrong? I think most would be alright with him in the 2nd here afaik.

I don’t want him at 14 but if he’s there in round 2 there’s few other scenarios I see where I’d want anyone else. 

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8 hours ago, Rodjahs12 said:

I don’t want him at 14 but if he’s there in round 2 there’s few other scenarios I see where I’d want anyone else. 

Man I don’t see it with him. Just watched all but like the last minute of his game against Texas Tech and he did virtually nothing and those aren’t great OT’s. His only sack came against a poor double team from a TE and RB. I’ll say this, he does hustle but has no power move at all and I Bay got the edge 1 or 2 times. He’s rated decent by most outlets so I wouldn’t scream at the TV if we took him but I have him more like a late 3rd or fourth round talent and then even then there are others I think I would take first. 

Whay film do you like that you saw? 

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3 hours ago, MantyWrestler said:

Man I don’t see it with him. Just watched all but like the last minute of his game against Texas Tech and he did virtually nothing and those aren’t great OT’s. His only sack came against a poor double team from a TE and RB. I’ll say this, he does hustle but has no power move at all and I Bay got the edge 1 or 2 times. He’s rated decent by most outlets so I wouldn’t scream at the TV if we took him but I have him more like a late 3rd or fourth round talent and then even then there are others I think I would take first. 

Whay film do you like that you saw? 

That Texas Tech tape isn’t as bad as you’re letting on. He showed real ability to bend the edge in that game and had a strip  and fumble recovery late in the third with his team down a few scores. Like you said his motor is his strongest asset right now and while I never see him being a great run defender, I think he’ll improve from where he currently is when he adds some bulk.I also wouldn’t say he has no power at all. Yeah he’s a finesse rusher but he flashes good hand use and a great first step as well. He needs to develop a spin/swim move to the inside to take advantage of that burst. 

He’s a hard prospect to get an grasp on because his pass rush productivity fell off a cliff in 2017 while his run defending got better. He played most of 2016 on a partially torn acl and still racked up all those sacks, pressures, hurries etc so it’s a matter of what you believe you’ll see from him going forward. 

Other game to look at include

West Virginia

Ohio

2016 Texas

2016 Oklahoma State

 

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18 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Haven't done a ton of detail into them, but I know enough to hold my own in a discussion on them.  Harold Landry is probably the most interesting player for me.  Elite bend and that first step gives him high upside as a pass rusher.  Doesn't really hold well at the POA, particularly during a double team.  Shows good understanding of leverage and solid fundamentals in run defense, but his lack of strength is readily apparent.  Shown some ability to drop back in coverage.  Davenport probably is the other end of the spectrum.  Power game is clearly there already, shown a very effective bull rush.  Hasn't displayed that bend that Landry has consistently.  Probably higher risk, but higher reward with Davenport.

Right now, I'm looking at Derwin James, Harold Landry, and Marcus Davenport are three guys I think are guys we should keep an eye on.  I don't think the Packers are in on Arden Key unless it's later on in the draft.  Something about Derwin James seems like a very real possibility, although that pretty much commits Josh Jones into that SS role.  Are we willing to do that?

Honestly , I get too hung up on positions. That’s why I haven’t looked at James much. I’m sure Pettine would get Jones, Haha and James on the field. Prob would signal the end of Burnett in GB.

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8 hours ago, MantyWrestler said:

Man I don’t see it with him. Just watched all but like the last minute of his game against Texas Tech and he did virtually nothing and those aren’t great OT’s. His only sack came against a poor double team from a TE and RB. I’ll say this, he does hustle but has no power move at all and I Bay got the edge 1 or 2 times. He’s rated decent by most outlets so I wouldn’t scream at the TV if we took him but I have him more like a late 3rd or fourth round talent and then even then there are others I think I would take first. 

Whay film do you like that you saw? 

He's another one of those players that you need to go back to 2016 film to watch to get a better understanding of him. 

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