Joe Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 5 hours ago, CWood21 said: No offense, but that's a rather narrow viewpoint to take. It really depends on how the board, and more importantly how the tiers break out. If we're sitting at 14 with ALL of the non-Chubb pass rushers on the board, I sure hope we're listening to trade offers. So you feel Chubb is the only pass-rusher worth it in the first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: If I'm the Browns I'm taking Allen and it isn't even close. He's either going to be Favre under Mac/Holmgren or Favre under Sherman depending on who you have coaching him (hopefully not Hue for Cleveland's sake) but that's the best QB in the draft. Hue's going to coach whoever they select. I personally don't think they need to select a QB at all. Kizer showed some promise down the stretch and the Redskins would be dumb enough to give them a ton of picks for #1. If I were them. I'd take Saquon Barkley #1 because the Giants or Colts will take him. Then see what's there at #4 or move down from #4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: If I'm the Browns I'm taking Allen and it isn't even close. He's either going to be Favre under Mac/Holmgren or Favre under Sherman depending on who you have coaching him (hopefully not Hue for Cleveland's sake) but that's the best QB in the draft. I mean this in the most nicest way possible, but what the hell are you smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Joe said: So you feel Chubb is the only pass-rusher worth it in the first? No. My argument is that I'm not sure any of the pass rushers outside of Chubb have really separated themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I mean this in the most nicest way possible, but what the hell are you smoking? Allen is the token draft community hate beacon this year so I get it. I just think you're all drastically wrong. Rosen is your typical safe guy, he's your Ryan, Goff, Cousins type QB. I'm not overly high on that type. Darnold is the same turnover machine minus the ability to do the things Allen can do, he's easily 3rd. Jackson I like, I just don't like the history of that skillset in the NFL so I'd probably wait until early round 2 to pull the trigger there. Mayfield is your typical media made, productive college QB. He's not Wilson. Arm isn't close. That leaves Allen, #1 arm by far, best build of the group by far, but he's going to need a QB guru. Guys get compared to Favre all the time, he's the closest I've ever seen. He has literally everything other than decision making ability. I wouldn't start him day 1, Cleveland should sign someone like Same Bradford and develop him for a season, but it isn't close for me right now, I'd take Allen in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Allen is the token draft community hate beacon this year so I get it. I just think you're all drastically wrong. It's not a hate beacon when his issues are glaringly obvious. I mean, we're making the same stupid excuses that people did with Christian Hackenberg. You get all enamored with the physical tools, and talk about how a good QB coach can mold him. You don't turn an inaccurate QB and make them accurate. The draft has been littered with these types year after year. The same people who are so adamant that Allen is/will be a franchise QB are the same people that were believers of Hackenberg. I mean, there's a video from the Senior Bowl where he and Baker Mayfield are doing footwork drills and Allen misses the ENTIRE netting. Not just the target, but the entire netting. That sums up his accuracy issues in a nutshell. If you want to invest a 1st round pick into Josh Allen, good luck when you're out of a job in a few years. Now if we're talking about a Day 2 pick, I'm all ears. But he's going to be way overdrafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Mayfield is your typical media made, productive college QB. He's not Wilson. Arm isn't close You're right. He's better than Russell Wilson. He's got a better arm than Wilson, and quite frankly I think he's more accurate. Being Russell Wilson isn't a huge bar to clear either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Baker Mayfield is a chiller version of Manziel; screw that guy... Rosen is the next Joey Harrington IMHO. He's wildly inconsistent despite his mechanical abilities as a passer. Darnold is the "safe" guy to me but he needs to go sit behind someone for a couple years to adjust. I don't think he can carry a team at the pro level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: You're right. He's better than Russell Wilson. He's got a better arm than Wilson, and quite frankly I think he's more accurate. Being Russell Wilson isn't a huge bar to clear either. Yikes, you and I are different planets regarding QBs. Mayfield's only getting a slightly better grade then Manziel from me and that was 4th round. Late 2nd-mid 3rd. Wilson has an ELITE arm, that's pure crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Yikes, you and I are different planets regarding QBs. Mayfield's only getting a slightly better grade then Manziel from me and that was 4th round. Late 2nd-mid 3rd. Wilson has an ELITE arm, that's pure crazy talk. That's a rather broad definition of elite if you're going to call his arm elite. And apparently I'm on a different planet, because there's only two 1st round graded QBs, Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold. I'm not touching Allen that early, he's too much of a project and has major red flags. Lamar Jackson probably isn't a QB at the next level, and Baker Mayfield I fear is a byproduct of the Oklahoma offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: He has literally everything other than decision making ability. I can't believe I missed this part. He's literally the most inaccurate of the top QB prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 16 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Allen is the token draft community hate beacon this year so I get it. I just think you're all drastically wrong. Rosen is your typical safe guy, he's your Ryan, Goff, Cousins type QB. I'm not overly high on that type. Darnold is the same turnover machine minus the ability to do the things Allen can do, he's easily 3rd. Jackson I like, I just don't like the history of that skillset in the NFL so I'd probably wait until early round 2 to pull the trigger there. Mayfield is your typical media made, productive college QB. He's not Wilson. Arm isn't close. That leaves Allen, #1 arm by far, best build of the group by far, but he's going to need a QB guru. Guys get compared to Favre all the time, he's the closest I've ever seen. He has literally everything other than decision making ability. I wouldn't start him day 1, Cleveland should sign someone like Same Bradford and develop him for a season, but it isn't close for me right now, I'd take Allen in a heartbeat. Why not just stay cheap and play Kizer? That allows them to spend mo money on other positions. Worst case scenario, they stink again (they will anyway) and pair their QB off of his redshirt year with a promising new weapon or Joe Thomas replacement. But this is about the Packers. The Browns should trade the #4 pick for Hundley. They saw how he can lead a team to an OT win first hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I can't believe I missed this part. He's literally the most inaccurate of the top QB prospects. He definitely has a consistency issue with his foot work, the completion % thing is overblown. He had a huge drop problem with his WRs and played in a pro style offense without the benefit of a dozen bubbles/jet sweep/screen attempts a game. Where did I ever say he's a finished product? Allen needs a lot of work, but there's the most to work with there. Darnold is more inaccurate than Allen to me. Jackson and Mayfield shouldn't be first rounders and Rosen is a nice prospect but I'll take the risk on Allen because there's a lot more you can develop there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Allen is the token draft community hate beacon this year so I get it. I just think you're all drastically wrong. Rosen is your typical safe guy, he's your Ryan, Goff, Cousins type QB. I'm not overly high on that type. Darnold is the same turnover machine minus the ability to do the things Allen can do, he's easily 3rd. Jackson I like, I just don't like the history of that skillset in the NFL so I'd probably wait until early round 2 to pull the trigger there. Mayfield is your typical media made, productive college QB. He's not Wilson. Arm isn't close. That leaves Allen, #1 arm by far, best build of the group by far, but he's going to need a QB guru. Guys get compared to Favre all the time, he's the closest I've ever seen. He has literally everything other than decision making ability. I wouldn't start him day 1, Cleveland should sign someone like Same Bradford and develop him for a season, but it isn't close for me right now, I'd take Allen in a heartbeat. I'm gonna need to be convinced about Allen. Based on some YouTube's I thought he'd be really good at the next level - but those videos dont tell the whole story. As for this: "Rosen is your typical safe guy, he's your Ryan, Goff, Cousins type QB. I'm not overly high on that type" - personally, I've been thinking Rosen looks on the frail side - but in truth, you've put him in some decent company. Might not be elite - but theres one MVP and a fair amount of passing yards between them. A guy could do worse then emulate their careers. I dont watch college football - so, I kinda off the range when it comes to having definitive takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, Leader said: I'm gonna need to be convinced about Allen. Based on some YouTube's I thought he'd be really good at the next level - but those videos dont tell the whole story. As for this: "Rosen is your typical safe guy, he's your Ryan, Goff, Cousins type QB. I'm not overly high on that type" - personally, I've been thinking Rosen looks on the frail side - but in truth, you've put him in some decent company. Might not be elite - but theres one MVP and a fair amount of passing yards between them. A guy could do worse then emulate their careers. I dont watch college football - so, I kinda off the range when it comes to having definitive takes. I think Rosen is going to be a good NFL QB, but I bet the Rams regret playing safe with Goff over Wentz. I see Rosen as the safe guy too, he'll be a nice QB but never in the elite category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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