AZBearsFan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Amukamara may not pick off passes, but he was well above replacement level this season. We are going to overpay a WR and probably one that can run fast. 700 yards and 6 TDs is totally fine for a #2 option and would be a lot by #2 WR standards in this offense. The Bears are desperate and they need someone who can start and run. In my world Sitton would be released in camp if Fulton beats him out. If not Fulton will probably start the year at RG and then fill in till 2019. Sherman is paid that by the Chiefs so I will assume he has that value to the offense. By what standard was Prince above replacement level? Zero INT. Zero FF. His 7 PD was tied for 88th in the league per Pro Football Reference. Is he just that much all over his guy that he just eliminates his man from the game plan? I surely didn’t see that. He’s adequate as a run stopper but by no means is he a great run stopper. What does he do above replacement level? Not getting regularly regularly torched is replacement level. Being better than Marcus Cooper is not the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: By what standard was Prince above replacement level? Zero INT. Zero FF. His 7 PD was tied for 88th in the league per Pro Football Reference. Is he just that much all over his guy that he just eliminates his man from the game plan? I surely didn’t see that. He’s adequate as a run stopper but by no means is he a great run stopper. What does he do above replacement level? Not getting regularly regularly torched is replacement level. Being better than Marcus Cooper is not the standard. Not sticking up for the guy, but Kyle Fuller was the most targeted CB in the NFL. Was that because they were scared of Amukamara? Or did Fuller look that bad on tape? Both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 17 minutes ago, G08 said: Not sticking up for the guy, but Kyle Fuller was the most targeted CB in the NFL. Was that because they were scared of Amukamara? Or did Fuller look that bad on tape? Both? I’m aware re: Fuller. I just don’t see Prince doing anything WELL. He’s not a bad player. He’s just not a GOOD player IMO. He’s a replacement level player. Average. 0 WAR. I’m not closed minded about this - just looking for something to explain to me what makes him better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said: I’m aware re: Fuller. I just don’t see Prince doing anything WELL. He’s not a bad player. He’s just not a GOOD player IMO. He’s a replacement level player. Average. 0 WAR. I’m not closed minded about this - just looking for something to explain to me what makes him better than that. He's a sticky corner, there's a reason he has so few INTs in his career (crap for hands). Had a pretty good PFF grade this year. I wouldn't throw crazy money at him but to bring him in as a #2? Could do worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, G08 said: He's a sticky corner, there's a reason he has so few INTs in his career (crap for hands). Had a pretty good PFF grade this year. I wouldn't throw crazy money at him but to bring him in as a #2? Could do worse. Certainly. And I’m not opposed to bringing him back. BUT, we’ve had 8 INT three years in a row as a team. That’s not enough. I really want a guy opposite Fuller (in this scenario) who can generate splash plays too. I’m fine with another one year deal for him ahead of a draft pick. I just don’t want to give a CB who has proven he can’t take the ball away a multi-year deal. I think we should aim higher and at the price he’s at in this mock I think we can get a better veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: By what standard was Prince above replacement level? Zero INT. Zero FF. His 7 PD was tied for 88th in the league per Pro Football Reference. Is he just that much all over his guy that he just eliminates his man from the game plan? I surely didn’t see that. He’s adequate as a run stopper but by no means is he a great run stopper. What does he do above replacement level? Not getting regularly regularly torched is replacement level. Being better than Marcus Cooper is not the standard. He does not get beat or give up a lot of receptions. Can you name a game when he struggled and was beaten consistently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, WindyCity said: He does not get beat or give up a lot of receptions. Can you name a game when he struggled and was beaten consistently? I remember multiple PI on plays where he was beat and multiple defensive holding or illegal contact penalties continuing drives. I remember a blown run fit resulting in a long TD run. Those things happen to everyone at some point but most starters generate big plays to swing the pendulum back the other way, and PA doesn’t. I can’t find the advanced stats on him (for free anyway) to speak to catch percentage against, QB Rating against, etc. Fuller was targeted much more but I don’t know if that was because of PA being good in coverage or Fuller being seen as a player to attack, or both. If you have some of those advanced stats please share because I’d like to see them. PFF has PA as their #43 corner. So a mid-level 2nd corner in a 32-team league. Fuller #22. Take that for what you will, but looking around the league how many teams are starting a 2nd corner who is either subpar or replacement level to the eye test? If PA is #43 he’s either one of those guys or just above that level, and that matches up with what I see. Not a liability, but not GOOD. A replacement level starter. I’m ok if he’s our starter again in 2018 as a placeholder. I just don’t think that he merits a multi-year deal at this juncture of his career. I think you can find an Amukamara every year in FA but locking one in for multiple years makes it harder to land an upgrade without a significant financial hit outside of drafting and developing one. If your plan is the latter then you sign an Amukamara to a one year deal. He’s a no upside one-year contract bridge player to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, AZBearsFan said: I remember multiple PI on plays where he was beat and multiple defensive holding or illegal contact penalties continuing drives. I remember a blown run fit resulting in a long TD run. Those things happen to everyone at some point but most starters generate big plays to swing the pendulum back the other way, and PA doesn’t. I can’t find the advanced stats on him (for free anyway) to speak to catch percentage against, QB Rating against, etc. Fuller was targeted much more but I don’t know if that was because of PA being good in coverage or Fuller being seen as a player to attack, or both. If you have some of those advanced stats please share because I’d like to see them. PFF has PA as their #43 corner. So a mid-level 2nd corner in a 32-team league. Fuller #22. Take that for what you will, but looking around the league how many teams are starting a 2nd corner who is either subpar or replacement level to the eye test? If PA is #43 he’s either one of those guys or just above that level, and that matches up with what I see. Not a liability, but not GOOD. A replacement level starter. I’m ok if he’s our starter again in 2018 as a placeholder. I just don’t think that he merits a multi-year deal at this juncture of his career. I think you can find an Amukamara every year in FA but locking one in for multiple years makes it harder to land an upgrade without a significant financial hit outside of drafting and developing one. If your plan is the latter then you sign an Amukamara to a one year deal. He’s a no upside one-year contract bridge player to me. Found penalty info. Thank you internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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