Bonanza23 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, buno67 said: basically, sounds like the Browns let him move on. Hopefully we get someone better. Be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Great I can’t lose the page starter crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Hopefully we get someone better. Be careful what you wish for. I’ll take my chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Hopefully we get someone better. Be careful what you wish for. well the browns wont get the best STC in the NFL, so its better to deem whoever is hired as the replacement as a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I’ll take my chances. I’m curious as to his talent pool he was given the past few years. He quite literally picked from the non proverbial bottom of the barrel. He got worse the less talented we got. Remember the ST coach picks from the bottom of the barrel. Unless a team gets a ST ace which we didn’t for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Hopefully we get someone better. Be careful what you wish for. I get what you are saying but it would be hard to find worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: I’m curious as to his talent pool he was given the past few years. He quite literally picked from the non proverbial bottom of the barrel. He got worse the less talented we got. Remember the ST coach picks from the bottom of the barrel. Unless a team gets a ST ace which we didn’t for years. He had guys like Bademosi and Marlon Moore who were in the league essentially for special teams alone. He had Jim Leonard fair catching every punt too. Ive seen nothing creative or innovative at all, no wrinkles in the return game, nothing. No reverses, fake reverses, any damned thing to make the opposing team think or react. All we did was line up and play vanilla. What’s about that is hard to replicate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: He had guys like Bademosi and Marlon Moore who were in the league essentially for special teams alone. He had Jim Leonard fair catching every punt too. Ive seen nothing creative or innovative at all, no wrinkles in the return game, nothing. No reverses, fake reverses, any damned thing to make the opposing team think or react. All we did was line up and play vanilla. What’s about that is hard to replicate? I’m just saying my man be careful what you wish for. Lets build the top half of the roster so there’s more to build special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosko1616 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 The curse has been lifting thank god. Brown super bowl book it. He’s been a leach for so long. So happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 So, I'm guessing this is the wrong thread for me to ask for someone to explain why Tabor is such a terrible coach according to you all? Special Teams is only as good as the bottom talent of the roster and he's been here when the teams been...... Who am I kidding...those arguments hold no weight on here... Please resume...your Fire-Tabor celebration and Fire-Hue hopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2ThaIzzo Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: So, I'm guessing this is the wrong thread for me to ask for someone to explain why Tabor is such a terrible coach according to you all? Special Teams is only as good as the bottom talent of the roster and he's been here when the teams been...... Who am I kidding...those arguments hold no weight on here... Please resume...your Fire-Tabor celebration and Fire-Hue hopes. Typical nonsense post by you. Can't even come up with anything that the guy has done well in the past several seasons, but want to justify keeping him on staff because the roster sucks. You want to go against the grain just because that's what you enjoy doing, then when someone calls you out for your nonsense you're going to pull out this victim card, or proclaim to be smarter than someone else because you have a "family member" that's in the business. Chris Tabor's unit single handedly cost us two wins against the Steelers this year alone. We lose the home opener 18-21 and his punt team unit surrenders a block that's recovered for a touchdown. We lose the season finale 24-28 and his kickoff team allows JuJu to return a kickoff 96 yards for a touchdown. Our punter also had a punt that was deflected that went for about 27 yards. We ranked 29th in avg punt return yards and 25th in longest punt return on the year. One of the worst in the league in net punt avg. One of the worst at punts downed inside the 20 yard line. That punter he proclaimed midseason was worthy of a Pro-Bowl nomination sure did shine eh? We were 5th worst in KO return yard average, were one of 6 teams to allow a kickoff to be returned for a touchdown. We were 3rd worst in punt return yardage allowed at nearly 11 a pop. We also were T-5th in fair catches forced with a measly 13 on the season. There literally was not a single special teams statistic that we achieved any success in, and I didn't even get into the rookie kicker who struggled for most of the season. So all of those bottom of the ocean ratings from every facet of our special teams was everything to do with the players and nothing to do with the coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Tabor can be upgraded upon, but things with him and the ST unit aren't so simple as to explain the masses jubilation at his departure. @H2ThaIzzo I respect any take that cites some evidence to make an argument even when I disagree with the interpretation of partial data. But the celebration and enthusiasm over Tabor's moving on clearly suggests a popular belief amongst fans that Tabor has been more terrible than good and it is mostly his fault for our struggles on Special Teams. Does traditional scouting and statistical analysis of Tabor's special team units play prove that to be true?, Interesting general questions: 1. Did Kyle Shanahan get better at coaching when Jimmy G was brought on board? Does data over a time scale prove that to be true?, 2. Did Al Saunders get better at coaching when Josh Gordon Returned? 3. Is Coaching mostly to blame for Ricardo Louis', Bryce Treggs, & Kenny Britt's failures? How do we quantify the blame? 4. How does one know where to draw the line between bad coaching and bad play? Is there a tried and true method of doing this the right way? (There is) Interesting questions regarding Tabor: 1. What did his special teams performance look like over time scale beyond 1 year? 2. What are the circumstances under which he coaches (personnel composition (DB heavy, LB heavy unit, young, old, injuries, etc) and how does such personnel composition relate to success or failure of a special teams unit? That is, do other coaches find themselves in similar predicaments with similar personnel? --------------------------------------------------- Check out the ST over a time course: https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/teams/cleveland-browns/ This year the unit was not good (not enough DBs or LBs in the unit **cough cough, 1st and 2nd year players **cough cough) but look at a time scale of 5 years w/ Tabor, one will find that his units along a wide variety of dimensions ranks anywhere from top 12 top top 20 w/ outlier years in the bottom 25. Since 2011, the units from a purely statistical standpoint have been top 15 in recent years and at times have been top 4 in the glory years. The units demise if you look at the chart parallels the demise of the roster overall and when the kickers, punters, and return men were reliable players versus not. For example, with the likes of Travis Benjamin, Phil Dawson, Spencer Lanning, insert veteran/good kicker/punter here, insert good KR/PR here, the whole unit and where it falls in the ST rankings is completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Bonanza23 said: I’m just saying my man be careful what you wish for. Lets build the top half of the roster so there’s more to build special teams. Stop it. We are an 0-16 team. There’s is literally no way in hell things can get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, candyman93 said: Stop it. We are an 0-16 team. There’s is literally no way in hell things can get worse. We could lose all our preseason games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: We could lose all our preseason games. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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