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49erurtaza

Norv Turner hired as Panthers OC

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13 hours ago, Heimdallr said:
14 hours ago, kramxel said:

Not really a fit for Cam.

Norv's a pretty vertical west coast offense kind of guy, and I don't think Cam really fits that mold.

They also don't have receivers (which seems an important factor when you're going into a pass first mentality).

Just an odd fit.

 

Norv uses the Air Coryell offense, not West Coast.

The Air Coryell is a vertical West Coast offense.  Bill Walsh established the system that is commonly accepted as the WCO, but Don Coryell actually pioneered the original West Coast Offense - which at its barest bones is simply an offense that stresses the pass more than the run and evolved into an offense that uses the pass to set up the run.  Technically both hail from Sid Gillman's offense (both Coryell and Walsh ultimately branch out from the Sid Gillman coaching tree).

Ultimately though "West Coast Offense" is like saying red wine or dark beer.  There are numerous varietals/sub-sets within the much more general root.

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9 minutes ago, The LBC said:

The Air Coryell is a vertical West Coast offense.  Bill Walsh established the system that is commonly accepted as the WCO, but Don Coryell actually pioneered the original West Coast Offense - which at its barest bones is simply an offense that stresses the pass more than the run and evolved into an offense that uses the pass to set up the run.  Technically both hail from Sid Gillman's offense (both Coryell and Walsh ultimately branch out from the Sid Gillman coaching tree).

Ultimately though "West Coast Offense" is like saying red wine or dark beer.  There are numerous varietals/sub-sets within the much more general root.

and we all came from a single cell

but "west coast offense" has an understood meaning... which emphasizes the short passing game with a lost of horizontal action to spread the defense out WIDE to open up the run. as opposed to a coryell offense which emphasizes the deeper passing game to stretch the defense BACK to open up the run and short passes

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6 minutes ago, raiderrocker18 said:

and we all came from a single cell

but "west coast offense" has an understood meaning... which emphasizes the short passing game with a lost of horizontal action to spread the defense out WIDE to open up the run. as opposed to a coryell offense which emphasizes the deeper passing game to stretch the defense BACK to open up the run and short passes

And again, that's Waslh's West Coast offense which isn't so much an "understood' meaning as the more widely-accepted (there's a difference) because it was more proliferated and because of the success of that proliferation (i.e. OC's specifically using Walsh's offense who went on to make and win Super Bowls).

Regardless, Norv's offense isn't a pure Air Coryell, it is very much a vertical West Coast offense.  You still see those horizontal passes (Norv loves his FB screens and his end-arounds) to force the defense out wider and the long-developing vertical routes to push the safeties back to open up the run.  It still incorporates what is effective the other principle of the WCO that you left out: High-percentage passes so as to influence ball-control.

Too often, and granted there are elements of it in there, people want to equate Norv's system to Joe Gibb's (which is much more of a pure Air Coryell than Norv's is).  The one main similarity though is the necessity of a strong offensive line.

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53 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

The guy is a freak, don't care who his QB was or OC

Yes but when you look at his games since 2013 he hasn’t matched his level of production and the QBs have been just as bad. 

Norv dide a great job of using Gordon and Jordan Cameron who got to his first and only pro bowl

This is a really underrated signing to me especially with Cam’s ability to get vertical 

you can bet I’ll be drafting Cam and Funchess 

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Just now, brownie man said:

Yes but when you look at his games since 2013 he hasn’t matched his level of production and the QBs have been just as bad. 

Norv dide a great job of using Gordon and Jordan Cameron who got to his first and only pro bowl

This is a really underrated signing to me especially with Cam’s ability to get vertical 

you can bet I’ll be drafting Cam and Funchess 

I mean, you can look at it the other way from his last stop too...

 

Diggs and Thielen just happened to have their BEST years after Norv left...

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46 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

I mean, you can look at it the other way from his last stop too...

 

Diggs and Thielen just happened to have their BEST years after Norv left...

Yeah they also had more consistent QB play and they’re not true vertical stretch the field options. 

When you look at when Norvs best he got a dominate X and a dominate Tight end. 

Diggs is a y or z and same with Adam D which is what Pat Shurmur is much better with another coach that I as a Browns fan can legit talk about from experience 

you can also see Rudolph’s production increased each year under Norv and had his best season of his career in 2016

Edited by brownie man

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Norv's offense rankings.

2015 Vikings - 30th

2014 Vikings - 27th

2013 Browns - 18th

2012 Chargers - 31st

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18 hours ago, Heimdallr said:

Norv uses the Air Coryell offense, not West Coast.

The Coryell one is THE west coast offense, the other one you're talking about is what we today refer as the "short passing offense".

P.S: I'm a Charger fan, I know what Norv runs.

Edited by kramxel

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I feel like Norv Turner is a lot like Dom Capers:

Great in the 90s, a couple good years in the latter end of the 2000s and an afterthought then that still manages to find work.

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This is an awful signing for Matt Kalil.  Kalil is a good fit for an offense where he doesn’t need to hold blocks for a long time, but Norv Turner’s offense uses a lot of 7 step drops and plays that take a decent amount of time to develop.

Mark my words.  Matt Kalil, who is injury prone, will give up a ton of pressure in this new offense and will either get hurt or fake an injury to excuse why he gets beat so frequently.

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Well we already ran a similar offense RE Matt Kalil sucking. It isn't like Rob Chudzinski didn't learn under Norv for several seasons and then Shula adapted Chud's playbook to be a bit more run-oriented.

Perhaps Norv is in the in-between of these two guys and can make it all mesh. Or maybe he'll be awful.

I'm more concerned with getting a QB coach who will push Cam. Finally fix his footwork. Make less bone-headed decisions. Shula and Dorsey both failed at that.

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On 1/12/2018 at 9:23 AM, SteelKing728 said:

I feel like Norv Turner is a lot like Dom Capers:

Great in the 90s, a couple good years in the latter end of the 2000s and an afterthought then that still manages to find work.

There's one avenue where i might contend Norv is worse.  At least Capers introduced and brought through younger coaches - Norv's a major nepotism guy not unlike Schottenheimer.  Note how he already got his son and his nephew hired as the QB and Asst. QB coaches respectfully.  Technically this is Scott's (Norv's son) second go-round with the Panthers, as he was there as a QC coach for the offense for the first several years of Rivera's tenure.

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