broncos67 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said: If we are truly blowing this team up, we might as well trade Von Miller and other defensive stalwarts like Wolfe and CH3. A true tear down will lead to a team that is playoff worthy around the time that those guys are declining. I don't understand the necessity of a full rebuild. The division is ripe for the taking. Get a franchise QB and a quality RT and we can make a run tomorrow. I think they are trying to rid the team of selfish players rather than blowing everything up. Personal opinion, of course. I also disagree that it will take that long. The Saints turned things around by having one good draft. Jacksonville made smart FA signings and drafted Fournette and Cam Robinson. It can be done in one offseason, but you NEED TO DRAFT WELL. It's very simple, unless and until Elway learns how to draft, this will not be a good football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, broncos67 said: I think they are trying to rid the team of selfish players rather than blowing everything up. Personal opinion, of course. I also disagree that it will take that long. The Saints turned things around by having one good draft. Jacksonville made smart FA signings and drafted Fournette and Cam Robinson. It can be done in one offseason, but you NEED TO DRAFT WELL. It's very simple, unless and until Elway learns how to draft, this will not be a good football team. Indeed...the Saints won three games last year. But, they do have an elite QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 28 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said: Indeed...the Saints won three games last year. But, they do have an elite QB. They actually went 7 and 9 but their coach also didn't resemble simple Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 49 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: They actually went 7 and 9 but their coach also didn't resemble simple Jack. Yeah...but what about Tebucky Jones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 13 hours ago, broncos67 said: I think they are trying to rid the team of selfish players rather than blowing everything up. Personal opinion, of course. I also disagree that it will take that long. The Saints turned things around by having one good draft. Jacksonville made smart FA signings and drafted Fournette and Cam Robinson. It can be done in one offseason, but you NEED TO DRAFT WELL. It's very simple, unless and until Elway learns how to draft, this will not be a good football team. Well, there is a reason Kubiak was brought back in, a more acute set og eyes that Elway trusts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I really like the idea of Tramon Williams as a stopgap #3CB if we trade/release Talib. He likely could be had for around 4M and was borderline elite last season with AZ (88.8 PFF grade, good for #8 among CB). His age will limit him to a 1 year deal, maybe 2, but he could come in and provide elite #3CB play for 1/3 of the cost of Talib. Then take a middle round CB to groom and hope one of Langley/mid round CB are ready to go in 1-2 years. As always, I will continue to tout Ed Dickson as a excellent stopgap TE option. He should be a 3.5M-4.5M type guy and at 30, may settle for a 2 year deal. Has seam breaking speed and can make plays after the catch. Even if Butt is ready to go and playing to full potential, Dickson would be a great compliment. And if he isn't ready to go? Dickson is talented enough to start, as long as we are using the TE to catch somewhat often (And we all know a pass catching TE as a safety blanket is a rookie QB's best friend. And if we go the other direction, Kirk loved targeting the similar-in-playing-stype Jordan Reed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I really like the idea of Tramon Williams as a stopgap #3CB if we trade/release Talib. He likely could be had for around 4M and was borderline elite last season with AZ (88.8 PFF grade, good for #8 among CB). His age will limit him to a 1 year deal, maybe 2, but he could come in and provide elite #3CB play for 1/3 of the cost of Talib. Then take a middle round CB to groom and hope one of Langley/mid round CB are ready to go in 1-2 years. As always, I will continue to tout Ed Dickson as a excellent stopgap TE option. He should be a 3.5M-4.5M type guy and at 30, may settle for a 2 year deal. Has seam breaking speed and can make plays after the catch. Even if Butt is ready to go and playing to full potential, Dickson would be a great compliment. And if he isn't ready to go? Dickson is talented enough to start, as long as we are using the TE to catch somewhat often (And we all know a pass catching TE as a safety blanket is a rookie QB's best friend. And if we go the other direction, Kirk loved targeting the similar-in-playing-stype Jordan Reed). The Denver Stopgaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Quote The Denver Stopgaps. Haha, well they cant all be driven off the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, jsthomp2007 said: The Denver Stopgaps. Assuming we go QB in the draft, I'd like to see fewer stopgaps brought in this offseason- fewer D Peko-type signings. This 2018 team isn't winning the Super Bowl and every snap that goes to a 29-33 year old veteran is a snap that doesn't go to a potential long term solution at that position. Edit: Not that we will find solutions at every position...but when we give those snaps away to veterans, we know with certainty that we aren't finding the long-term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, bMiller031 said: Assuming we go QB in the draft, I'd like to see fewer stopgaps brought in this offseason- fewer D Peko-type signings. This 2018 team isn't winning the Super Bowl and every snap that goes to a 29-33 year old veteran is a snap that doesn't go to a potential long term solution at that position. Edit: Not that we will find solutions at every position...but when we give those snaps away to veterans, we know with certainty that we aren't finding the long-term solution. I agree unless it's a young player like Stewart was coming in. Wouldn't mind a wr for like a 3 year deal because I think continuity with a rookie qb is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 40 minutes ago, bMiller031 said: Assuming we go QB in the draft, I'd like to see fewer stopgaps brought in this offseason- fewer D Peko-type signings. This 2018 team isn't winning the Super Bowl and every snap that goes to a 29-33 year old veteran is a snap that doesn't go to a potential long term solution at that position. Edit: Not that we will find solutions at every position...but when we give those snaps away to veterans, we know with certainty that we aren't finding the long-term solution. It depends - if you can find a 1-year stopgap who really shines, then you can get a comp pick back the next year if they leave in FA. Usually those have to be guys whose stock is down either due to injury or off-the-field issues. Most 1-year signings have little hope to get that return, so you have to pick your spots there. The reality is that we aren't going to be able to fill all of our holes with the draft or young UFA's, though - young UFA's who have any type of decent track record will be expensive. Stewart is the ideal, but they are rare. Long-term we do need a CB to replace Talib (and maybe Roby if we don't go past 2018 with him), 2 ILB spots, a DE spot and NT. If either Ray or Barrett aren't worth extending, we'll need 1-2 EDGES. On O, we for sure need at least 1 3rd WR (and after 2018, we might part ways with both Sanders/DT if we haven't already), at least 1 TE, and 2 OL spots are needed, along with QB. The draft realistically can't expect to get more than 1-2 starters this year (but year 2 you'd hope we can get more starters - that's where Day 2 comes in). We will need to make some value picks - a guy like Dickson has at least 3-4 year potential if he can stick (TE is a position that ages better than most). It just underlines why we have to be way better at the draft overall, barring a NO-like draft we won't be able to restock the roster depth to our 2013-2015 contending days without at least 2 good drafts. Given our track record, it would be rose-colored delusional to think we'll fix it all in 1 draft/UDFA crop. What we shoudn't do - throw money at aging FA's. The quickest rebuilds happen with good drafting and not creating cap hell - rather we go on the cheap with anyone we get who isn't a long-term solution for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Quote Assuming we go QB in the draft, I'd like to see fewer stopgaps brought in this offseason- fewer D Peko-type signings. This 2018 team isn't winning the Super Bowl and every snap that goes to a 29-33 year old veteran is a snap that doesn't go to a potential long term solution at that position. Edit: Not that we will find solutions at every position...but when we give those snaps away to veterans, we know with certainty that we aren't finding the long-term solution. If this is the mentality then we should deal Von. That's the mentality of tanking. If we want to go that direction, we should go all out. But we should be prepared for a true culture shock and at least two more losing seasons. I think that youth in this league is tremendously overrated. You sign stopgaps in FA (Pay big $$$ if elite, if not go for the bargain bin), and you draft BPA in the draft. That's the simple, easly verifyable road to success. But you cant just hand young guys snaps and cross your fingers. They need to be pushed and vets are the ones that do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 15 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: If this is the mentality then we should deal Von. That's the mentality of tanking. If we want to go that direction, we should go all out. But we should be prepared for a true culture shock and at least two more losing seasons. I think that youth in this league is tremendously overrated. You sign stopgaps in FA (Pay big $$$ if elite, if not go for the bargain bin), and you draft BPA in the draft. That's the simple, easly verifyable road to success. But you cant just hand young guys snaps and cross your fingers. They need to be pushed and vets are the ones that do just that. I wouldn't freak out if this happened...IF, the Broncos got a Hershel Walker type haul from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 19 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: If this is the mentality then we should deal Von. That's the mentality of tanking. If we want to go that direction, we should go all out. But we should be prepared for a true culture shock and at least two more losing seasons. I think that youth in this league is tremendously overrated. You sign stopgaps in FA (Pay big $$$ if elite, if not go for the bargain bin), and you draft BPA in the draft. That's the simple, easly verifyable road to success. But you cant just hand young guys snaps and cross your fingers. They need to be pushed and vets are the ones that do just that. If vets are the ones who push young guys, why trade Von? I'm not suggesting that we blow it up... just that we can't NOT get younger (if we go QB in the draft, rather than KC). Developing the teams of 2020-2023 has to be the focus, not climbing our way to 9-7 on the backs of end-of-their-prime guys. There isn't a single position on this roster that we pass on if they're the BPA - with the possible exception of safety. Bring in the best young guys we can find -- bring in the best value 2nd-contract guys we can find, and compete. My point wasn't that we pass over the Darian Stewart-type signings -- it was that we pass on the 3rd/4th contract guys that make us better in the short-term but provide no long-term play. If we aren't a Super Bowl team, those snaps HAVE to go to the Jamal Carter-type guys rather than Mike Adams of 2013-type guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 FWIW the BUF C Eric Wood situation may have a ripple effect on us, with Wolfe. Wood basically had a neck condition picked up on end of season physical, no actual playing injury, and was told he would never get clearance to play again - even it was treated and/or surgically repaired. Obviously it depends on the injury but I suspect after Ryan Shazier teams are going to be less tolerant of risk with neck injuries and return to playing. Wolfe’s recovery will likely fall heavily under the microscope. His return weighs heavily in where we prioritize FA so figured I’d post it in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.