The Offseason Thread

[tgrades3]

Titans claimed Gimel President off waivers from HOU. Vrabel is farmilar with him, played special teams. Should compete for a spot 

[ragevsuall17]

Only player on the roster that season with a catch % under 60%... and his was actually under 50%.  In fact, take away Sharpe's targets and receptions from Mariota's stats, and his completion % goes up from 61% to 64%... and without Sharpe's TDs, his TD rate goes from 5.8% to 6.5%.  It's hard to determine how many ints Mariota had when he threw Sharpe's way, so I'll just keep the int rate the same (2.0%)... taking all other Sharpe's stats from Mariota in 2016, Mariota ends with a QB rating of 102 (101.993):

• Mariota's full stats: 277/451, 3426 yds, 61.2 comp %, 7.6 ypa, 26/9, 5.8%/2.0%, 96.6 qb rating
• Passes to Sharpe: 41/83, 522 yds, 49.4 comp %, 6.3 ypa, 2/2, 2.4%/2.0%, 67.4 qb rating*
• Mariota's stats minus Sharpe's stats: 235/368, 2904, 63.9 comp %, 7.9 ypa, 24/7, 6.5%/2.0%, 102 qb rating

 

But yeah, Sharpe's good. 

It's like saying Cox was good with us that same season because he led the team in ints (3) and was 2nd in PDs (10).  Bulk stats, specially on a bad team with a serious lack of talent does not translate into a good player.  I don't care which way you try to spin it...

 

*A couple of assumptions: 1st, numbers are assuming 2.0% int rate translates to all players equally, even though the rest of Mariota's stats are worse when throwing to Sharpe than any other receiver on the team, I'll be nice and assume 2.0% of Mariota's passes thrown to Sharpe were picked off... actual number would be 1.7 ints when targetting Sharpe, so I rounded to 2... even rounding down to 1 int would leave a qb rating of 72.5, so it's not like it's stat shattering to assume up .3... also, I know Cassell's numbers not taken into account, but it's such a small sample size that his stats would have a statistically minimal impact on the ratios.... bottom line is Sharpe was horribly inefficient in 2016  

[Chocolateman78]

The hate for Tajae here is so wild. Nobodies calling him a world beater, but you could do worse at the bottom of your WR corp.

And here's my point for Tajae... you know who still believes in him? The guy who has had MULTIPLE opportunities to replace him over the past year and change, the guy who could have easily cut him after the allegations that happened last draft. I dunno, I'm gonna put merit in the fact that the guys who watch practice everyday, and the new staff, which has meticulously studied film of the roster in preparation for free agency and the draft, have seemingly given him a vote of confidence.

Not saying he's a lock to make the roster, nobody at the bottom of the bubble is, but the fact that they have brought in so little competition for him clearly means they expect him to be apart of this team. 

[KingTitan]

2 minutes ago, Chocolateman78 said:

The hate for Tajae here is so wild. Nobodies calling him a world beater, but you could do worse at the bottom of your WR corp.

And here's my point for Tajae... you know who still believes in him? The guy who has had MULTIPLE opportunities to replace him over the past year and change, the guy who could have easily cut him after the allegations that happened last draft. I dunno, I'm gonna put merit in the fact that the guys who watch practice everyday, and the new staff, which has meticulously studied film of the roster in preparation for free agency and the draft, have seemingly given him a vote of confidence.

Not saying he's a lock to make the roster, nobody at the bottom of the bubble is, but the fact that they have brought in so little competition for him clearly means they expect him to be apart of this team. 

Also Robinson feels strongly that the problem with the offense last year wasn't an player issue, more of a coaching issue. Sharpe and the rest of the crew is expected to look a lot better this year under LaFleur. 

[ragevsuall17]

I provided stats... they stand on their own.  I'll take Maclin, Marshall, even Decker back over him as the 4th WR.  It's not like he provides any value on STs either, right?  Of course I'll also be intrigued by who becomes available on the waiver.  If Burnett or any of the other guys can play STs, then Sharpe is the 1st guy out.  

Based on the stats he put in 2016, he was by far the least efficient WR on the team that year... a team that carried Douglas, a past his prime AJ, etc.  I'm not skewing the stats one bit... it's black and white.  Mariota was a way worse QB when he threw Sharpe's way... QB rating of 70 vs 100+... he just happened not to have many other options that season.  This team will be better when a better receiver beats him out. It won't take much.

And if him being on the roster is the sole argument for him being any good... then I have to bring Dodd up.  Does JRob also see something in the day to day out practices from a guy who's also received a vote of confidence from the new staff?  Sadly, I actually have more hope for Dodd to do something this coming season than I do of Sharpe.  

I don't hate him at all... he's just not good... may be the most inefficient WR we've had in the past decade +... and that's saying a lot with the group we've trotted out during that time.  

[TitanRedd]

Again you guys keep posting all the stats about how Mariota is a better QB when not throwing to him, but wake up, he was a 5th round pick going up against either the opposing team best or 2nd best corner. ? throwed in the fire as a #2 WR & still had a solid year, now put him as a #3 or 4 WR going up against mediocre CB’s & in a offense with creative scheming. Again you guys are expecting too much out of him. He doesn’t suck & still has a better rookie yr than Davis. 

[Chocolateman78]

1 hour ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I provided stats... they stand on their own.  I'll take Maclin, Marshall, even Decker back over him as the 4th WR.  It's not like he provides any value on STs either, right?  Of course I'll also be intrigued by who becomes available on the waiver.  If Burnett or any of the other guys can play STs, then Sharpe is the 1st guy out.  

Based on the stats he put in 2016, he was by far the least efficient WR on the team that year... a team that carried Douglas, a past his prime AJ, etc.  I'm not skewing the stats one bit... it's black and white.  Mariota was a way worse QB when he threw Sharpe's way... QB rating of 70 vs 100+... he just happened not to have many other options that season.  This team will be better when a better receiver beats him out. It won't take much.

And if him being on the roster is the sole argument for him being any good... then I have to bring Dodd up.  Does JRob also see something in the day to day out practices from a guy who's also received a vote of confidence from the new staff?  Sadly, I actually have more hope for Dodd to do something this coming season than I do of Sharpe.  

I don't hate him at all... he's just not good... may be the most inefficient WR we've had in the past decade +... and that's saying a lot with the group we've trotted out during that time.  

 

No... him being on the roster is not the sole argument. The fact is that two free agent periods and two drafts have passed since this monumentally horrendous season that Sharpe had, and even despite an off field mishap and a season ending injury, they are still holding onto him. Put your numbers aside and tell me this, if he is that bad, how come they didn't just waive him with an injury designation last offseason? It's not like it was a steep financial burden. We can all agree that the WR position is pretty shallow given the expected greater workload the new offense will place on the WR's.  I still expect them to add a veteren to provide competition at some point, but the fact that they are have put little effort into upgrading the positions during the prime talent acquisition windows (The draft and free agency) shows that they are happy/confident with Corey's development, Taywans ability to work the slot, and Tajae's ability to add depth.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did we not just trade up to #41 to take a player who plays Dodds position? One who provides direct competition and who could push Dodd off the roster? I think we did. Who did we add to challenge Tajae? Michael Campanero?

Kinda poor example.

We have plenty of money, if replacing Tajae was as dire as you all make it sound, again would they not have made the move by now? Again ample opportunity has existed and the resources are there. So does J Rob not see what you see? Even with hours of All 22 game and practice footage to pour over?

The staff clearly sees something in him. Look I wanna see more competition at the bottom of the roster as well. I hope the wavier wire heats up around June 1st cuts. But I think you can do alot worse with a guy like Tajae as your 4th or 5th WR. 

[titans0021]

3 hours ago, TitanRedd said:

Again you guys keep posting all the stats about how Mariota is a better QB when not throwing to him, but wake up, he was a 5th round pick going up against either the opposing team best or 2nd best corner. ? throwed in the fire as a #2 WR & still had a solid year, now put him as a #3 or 4 WR going up against mediocre CB’s & in a offense with creative scheming. Again you guys are expecting too much out of him. He doesn’t suck & still has a better rookie yr than Davis. 

I don't know how you scheme open a guy with no athleticism and sloppy route running. He's terrible. The only reason anyone even remembers that he exists is because of a one month stretch he had in training camp as a rookie. He's bad and he has a ridiculously low ceiling since he has zero above average traits. I don't know why Robinson seems to keep wanting to make him a thing. But he's not a thing. And we'll all be reminded of it when we get a chance to watch him again.

This talk of him suddenly being matched up with mediocre corners though. Where exactly do we think he's going to play? Are we planning on playing him in the slot? Because he's has absolutely no lateral quickness or playmaking ability. He's an outside receiver. And when he's asked to play outside, he's going to get matched up with starting corners. Just like he did as a rookie. When he was terrible.

Our quarterback was significantly worse throwing to him than he was to Harry Douglas. And Kendall Wright. Hell, Marcus was better off as a rookie throwing to DGB, Justin Hunter and Anthony Fasano. Look at those names. Where you're drafted shouldn't matter. I'm not out here comparing him to Julio. Just the worst receivers we've had out of some absolutely abysmal receiving groups. And still, Sharpe's one year of actually playing manages to separate itself as the worst of the group. I have some level of faith that LaFleur can get good things out of CD and Taywan Taylor because they have some attributes that separate them from other players. I don't think it's fair to expect LaFleur to be some sort of miracle worker that turns our garbage into gold.

[titans0021]

1 hour ago, Chocolateman78 said:

We have plenty of money, if replacing Tajae was as dire as you all make it sound, again would they not have made the move by now? Again ample opportunity has existed and the resources are there. So does J Rob not see what you see? Even with hours of All 22 game and practice footage to pour over?

After the draft, I'm not really in the mood to sit back and bash J-Rob, but yes, he obviously doesn't see what I see. He probably sees the pet project that was all the rave in training camp and thinks it could be another accolade if he were to develop into anything. I just hope CD stays healthy and Taywan develops so we'll never have to see the guy play more than five snaps in a game.

[TitanSlim]

Am I missing something? When did Sharpe the most inefficient WR ever compared to Hunter and DGB? To compare....

2016 Sharpe-83 targets/41 rec. (49.4%)/522 yards/2 TDs

2015 DGB-67 targets/32 rec. (47.8%)/549 yards/4 TDs

2014 Hunter-67 targets/28 rec.(41.8%)/498 yards/3 TDs

(BONUS)2017 Corey Davis-65 targets/34 rec.(52.3%)/375 yards/0 TDs

And that's a 22 year old second rounder (DGB) and a 2nd year, 23 year old second rounder (Hunter) compared to a rookie 21 year old fifth rounder.

True, Sharpe wasn't efficient.  But the talk of him being the most inefficient (and it honestly sounds like the worst) WR in Titans history is wild to me.

[ragevsuall17]

5 hours ago, Chocolateman78 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but did we not just trade up to #41 to take a player who plays Dodds position? One who provides direct competition and who could push Dodd off the roster? I think we did. Who did we add to challenge Tajae? Michael Campanero?

Kinda poor example.

We have 2 starting olbs who are both past 30 and are on their FA season. Who else is exactly behind them? Olb depth this year wasn't the only reason the position was one of the biggest needs going into FA.

Sharpe's vote of "confidence" came last year. Not only did we draft a guy in the 1st to take over his starting spot, we traded up in the 3rd to get a slot guy. We then picked up a vet FA... All that happened. He ended up missing the season with a foot injury... So you think were expecting a slow WR to begin with to come back better than ever after that?

The lack of FA interest was really surprising. But thats not JRobs first time not addressing a position of need. Going into 2016 we knew both CB was a position of need and we avoided it. We also knew WR was a little shaky and not only did we not address it until the 5th, but we then traded the guy many felt was our best receiver going into the season. Thats how we ended up with Sharpe starting.

Again, none of that means we're confident in anything, they just happen to have prioritized D this year (not surprising with a new HC with a defensive background). If Conklin is PUPed as expected, our OL depth is suspect as well... Or do you think thats a vote of confidence that one of our guys can take over at tackle if Kelly, or god forbid Lewan has to miss time early?

But if a receiver like Miller or someone else with potential and connections becomes available now, I expect JRob to jump all over that, like he did Decker last year.

[ragevsuall17]

8 hours ago, TitanRedd said:

Again you guys keep posting all the stats about how Mariota is a better QB when not throwing to him, but wake up, he was a 5th round pick going up against either the opposing team best or 2nd best corner. ? throwed in the fire as a #2 WR & still had a solid year, now put him as a #3 or 4 WR going up against mediocre CB’s & in a offense with creative scheming. Again you guys are expecting too much out of him. He doesn’t suck & still has a better rookie yr than Davis. 

 

What's with this going up against 2nd rate CB thing?   I wasn't aware the regular season was set up like the preseason when backups are faced up only against other backups.  The reality is that our 4th WR is intended to backup the starters, and play against opponent's starters.  If Davis or Matthews need to sit for a play or 2, is Jacksonville going to sit Ramsey or Bouye?  Nope... Sharpe has to face those very same guys... This may be the most ridiculous argument I've seen and I had avoided it since I saw it and will avoid it again going forward

 

1 hour ago, TitanSlim said:

Am I missing something? When did Sharpe the most inefficient WR ever compared to Hunter and DGB? To compare....

2016 Sharpe-83 targets/41 rec. (49.4%)/522 yards/2 TDs

2015 DGB-67 targets/32 rec. (47.8%)/549 yards/4 TDs

2014 Hunter-67 targets/28 rec.(41.8%)/498 yards/3 TDs

(BONUS)2017 Corey Davis-65 targets/34 rec.(52.3%)/375 yards/0 TDs

And that's a 22 year old second rounder (DGB) and a 2nd year, 23 year old second rounder (Hunter) compared to a rookie 21 year old fifth rounder.

True, Sharpe wasn't efficient.  But the talk of him being the most inefficient (and it honestly sounds like the worst) WR in Titans history is wild to me.

 

When addressing DGB and Hunter, I have two thoughts: Are you arguing for Sharpe using those 2 examples?!  One guy is out of the league I think, and the other may join him soon.

The second thought is you're comparing a slow possession type receiver vs guys who are considered deeper threats (ypr highlights this fact... Sharpe getting 12.7 in '16, DGB getting  17.2 in '15 and Hunter averaging 17.8 in '14).  Anyway, efficiency (and rating) may start at comp % or catch rate,  but it certainly doesn't end there.

While Sharpe averaged 6.3 ypa (or target in a receiver's case), 2.4 TD %  and a rating under 70... DGB saw 8.2 ypa, a 5.9 TD %, and an 83.4 QB rating (using int stats for both Mariota and Mett for that season)... and Hunter saw 7.4 ypa, a 4.4 TD %, and a 70.4 QB rating (using stats for Whitehurst, Mett, and Locker).  Also consider that the QB ratings were worse overall those 2 seasons, so the disparity of much more significant

• 2014, total QB rating 81.0 - QB rating targeting Hunter is 70.4 - difference of 10.5
• 2015, total QB rating 85.5 - QB rating targeting DGB is 83.4 - difference of 2.1
• 2016, total QB rating of 93.7, QB rating targeting Sharpe is 67.4 - difference of 26.3

 

Now Davis is a harder explanation... and one that I can't back up solely with their stats.  But Davis was the opposite of Sharpe in how their seasons went.  Sharpe had a good first 2 weeks in 2016... then averaged just over 2 receptions per game and something like 20 something yards per game after that (not sure on that number but it was under 30).  I'm not going into the full breakdown of that again, I know I posted that prior to last season... but it was bad.  It's like teams weren't expecting anything and after a week they figured out his game and he became non-existent. 

Davis had the awesome first week... then got hurt again.  Not only did he miss a chunk of TC, but he then missed the first couple of months.  He was playing catch up after that.  Last season also happened to be Marcus' worst statistical season to date, with his QB rating going from 91.5 to 95.6 before dipping to 79.3.  I know it's all excuses... but what I'm trying to get to is that Davis turned in his two best games the last month of the season... a 6 catch, 91 yard game at LAR and then his 5 catch, 63 yard, 2 TD gem in the Divisional Round against the Pats.  So while his rookie season left much to be desired, there's definitely something tangible there that we can hang our hats on for improvement going into this season. 

[TitanRedd]

19 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

 

What's with this going up against 2nd rate CB thing?   I wasn't aware the regular season was set up like the preseason when backups are faced up only against other backups.  The reality is that our 4th WR is intended to backup the starters, and play against opponent's starters.  If Davis or Matthews need to sit for a play or 2, is Jacksonville going to sit Ramsey or Bouye?  Nope... Sharpe has to face those very same guys... This may be the most ridiculous argument I've seen and I had avoided it since I saw it and will avoid it again going forward

 

 

When addressing DGB and Hunter, I have two thoughts: Are you arguing for Sharpe using those 2 examples?!  One guy is out of the league I think, and the other may join him soon.

The second thought is you're comparing a slow possession type receiver vs guys who are considered deeper threats (ypr highlights this fact... Sharpe getting 12.7 in '16, DGB getting  17.2 in '15 and Hunter averaging 17.8 in '14).  Anyway, efficiency (and rating) may start at comp % or catch rate,  but it certainly doesn't end there.

While Sharpe averaged 6.3 ypa (or target in a receiver's case), 2.4 TD %  and a rating under 70... DGB saw 8.2 ypa, a 5.9 TD %, and an 83.4 QB rating (using int stats for both Mariota and Mett for that season)... and Hunter saw 7.4 ypa, a 4.4 TD %, and a 70.4 QB rating (using stats for Whitehurst, Mett, and Locker).  Also consider that the QB ratings were worse overall those 2 seasons, so the disparity of much more significant

• 2014, total QB rating 81.0 - QB rating targeting Hunter is 70.4 - difference of 10.5
• 2015, total QB rating 85.5 - QB rating targeting DGB is 83.4 - difference of 2.1
• 2016, total QB rating of 93.7, QB rating targeting Sharpe is 67.4 - difference of 26.3

 

Now Davis is a harder explanation... and one that I can't back up solely with their stats.  But Davis was the opposite of Sharpe in how their seasons went.  Sharpe had a good first 2 weeks in 2016... then averaged just over 2 receptions per game and something like 20 something yards per game after that (not sure on that number but it was under 30).  I'm not going into the full breakdown of that again, I know I posted that prior to last season... but it was bad.  It's like teams weren't expecting anything and after a week they figured out his game and he became non-existent. 

Davis had the awesome first week... then got hurt again.  Not only did he miss a chunk of TC, but he then missed the first couple of months.  He was playing catch up after that.  Last season also happened to be Marcus' worst statistical season to date, with his QB rating going from 91.5 to 95.6 before dipping to 79.3.  I know it's all excuses... but what I'm trying to get to is that Davis turned in his two best games the last month of the season... a 6 catch, 91 yard game at LAR and then his 5 catch, 63 yard, 2 TD gem in the Divisional Round against the Pats.  So while his rookie season left much to be desired, there's definitely something tangible there that we can hang our hats on for improvement going into this season. 

& at the end of the day with all your stats he still had a better rookie season than Davis, who hasn’t prove nothing but Tajae sucks. Mane He still can get better I guess you never heard of developing talent ?

[ragevsuall17]

15 minutes ago, TitanRedd said:

& at the end of the day with all your stats he still had a better rookie season than Davis, who hasn’t prove nothing but Tajae sucks. Mane He still can get better I guess you never heard of developing talent ?

And statistically, Cox in 2016 had a better season than Adoree last year.  What's your point? 

So a slow WR who couldn't previously create seperation is now better developed after a foot injury kept him out all year.  Sure bud... keep going with that.

[TitanRedd]

43 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

And statistically, Cox in 2016 had a better season than Adoree last year.  What's your point? 

So a slow WR who couldn't previously create seperation is now better developed after a foot injury kept him out all year.  Sure bud... keep going with that.

It’s call developing that’s my point but you know every thing clearly, just how Antonio Brown wasn’t a factor his 1st couple yrs, & go a head & twisted saying I’m comparing him to AB cause I’m not, but a rookie WR without a NFL offseason strength & conditioning or any pro type of training came in & was solid. You already writing him off ? good thing you’re not a GM