Will Tom Brady Become The Greatest...

[Non-Issue]

On 2/6/2018 at 1:44 PM, Wolverine_Joe said:

 

what did ryan mallett and jacoby brissett for the pats?    and garappolo looks so good that he is about to land a max contract.

 

and you can't possibly be a michigan fan.  no way.  not possible.

 

 

Add him to the list of "football fans" that conveniently forgot that Matt Cassel went to the Chiefs and had as good, if not better, season than his 2008 season in New England. Won the same number of games. And went to the playoffs.

That was without Belichick, Randy Moss or Wes Welker. 

Maybe Bill mailed his magical "system" to Todd Haley though. But only for that season. Then he erased his memory. Dastardly villain that he is.

[Non-Issue]

1 minute ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Those awards mean diddly. Case & point: Doug Pederson received one vote for Coach of the Year.

To you they dont. To pretty much everyone else they do. I just watched people spend the better part of the last 15 years arguing that Manning was a better QB than Brady because of stats and MVPs. 

But good luck convincing anyone that a discussing centered on the greats of the game won't (or shouldnt) include statistics and awards. You know... accomplishments.

[Carmen Cygni]

38 minutes ago, Non-Issue said:

To you they dont. To pretty much everyone else they do. I just watched people spend the better part of the last 15 years arguing that Manning was a better QB than Brady because of stats and MVPs. 

But good luck convincing anyone that a discussing centered on the greats of the game won't (or shouldnt) include statistics and awards. You know... accomplishments.

Yeah, that is silly. Manning is the better QB for the way he played on the field, and the way he was in fully command of the offense almost operating as his own OC, not because of stats and pointless awards.

[Non-Issue]

12 minutes ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Yeah, that is silly. Manning is the better QB for the way he played on the field, and the way he was in fully command of the offense almost operating as his own OC, not because of stats and pointless awards.

Again... to you.

Players are measured on more than the eye test when it comes to comparing the greats. Legacy matters. Stats matter. Awards matter. 

Take a look at any player in their respective sports Hall of Fame. The first thing you see is a glimpse of what they accomplished while playing. What got them to be considered one of the all time greats. Stats, awards and accomplishments. 

And if you have reduced the comparison between Manning and Brady to one component (Manning called his own plays) then I dont know what to tell you other than it isnt a very nuanced argument. People have spent pages and pages arguing for and against these two guys. Getting down to the most ridiculous of minutiae. And you have boiled it down to "Manning was the better QB because he called his own plays."

So do calling the plays that got his teams bounced from the playoffs so often count against him double? He was the one calling the wrong plays as well as the one underperforming while trying to complete those plays. Right?

[Non-Issue]

I need to point out we may be arguing apples to oranges here. 

Discussion 1: Who is the better QB? (side by side comparison of ability and intangibles)

Discussion 2: Who is the greatest QB? (the above, plus stats, awards, accomplishments and impact on the game)

I would never say Tom Brady is the best QB to ever play. He is up there. But in a side by side comparison, I would probably put Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young at the top of the list. Not Brady. Nor Manning. But we are talking (I presume) about greatness. And legacy. And that encompasses the whole package.

 

[Wolverine_Joe]

4 hours ago, Carmen Cygni said:

Yeah, that is silly. Manning is the better QB for the way he played on the field, and the way he was in fully command of the offense almost operating as his own OC, not because of stats and pointless awards.

 

so brady doesn't have a full command of the offense?   that's new.

manning is a great player.  IMO he is #2 greatest.   i have him above montana.  

 

but  brady has taken that michael jordan step.   brady has no equal IMO.  

 

 

[oksterling]

Can't be the greatest if you lose to a scrub backup qb lol

[CP3MVP]

On 2/6/2018 at 8:29 PM, Carmen Cygni said:

That was kinda my point.

Because they don’t have the combination of stats and team success  that brady has 

[DirtyDez]

As long as Edelman is healthy and Gronk doesn't retire I expect another MVP caliber season and we'll still be talking about this next year.  How's their OL situation look? 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, DirtyDez said:

As long as Edelman is healthy and Gronk doesn't retire I expect another MVP caliber season and we'll still be talking about this next year.  How's their OL situation look? 

Down performance from 2016, despite the RG (Shaq Mason) and the C (David Andrews) having great seasons. 2nd year LG Joe Thuney was inconsistent and All-Pro Marcus Cannon missed most of the season with injury. LT Nate Solder was okay/solid, but he’s an impending FA. 

His replacement will likely be either La’Adrian Waddle, the backup RT who actually plays well when he’s on the field (he got hurt too), 3rd round pick Antonio Garcia (who was essentially red shirted after getting injured), or a new draft pick. Also possible that Solder is brought back. 

Dante Scarnecchia, the OL coach, is expected back so Patriots fans have optimism regarding the line even if Solder is lost. If Cannon comes back healthy and the left tackle isn’t a turnstile then the line ought to be better than 2017’s.