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The Future of This Franchise (Coaching Staff Debate)


steelcurtain29

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7 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

I've wanted Kyle Shanahan for years.  He looked good in SF when he finally got a QB. 

Its been one year.   Hasnt proven anything yet.

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There is no excuse for the Steelers to continually be out coached every damn game. 

They arent....but your "hater" mindset is on full display.

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They have squandered so much talent it is ridiculous. 

No, you just have unrealistic expectations.    Our talent level overall isnt notably better (and in some cases, its not as good) as teams who have had less success than we have.

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I don't give a damn who it is! 

Sorry, but this is why no one should take you seriously.

You want change for the sake of change, and you blindly seem to think it will get better.

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Just get rid of the same crap that never changes.

Changes should be made.   The mass exodus you suggest with no suggestions as to who can replace them is silly. 

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Every year under Tomlin there is less and less discipline. 

Yep....so undisciplined they went 13-3 a year after going to the AFC Championship game.

This is such a broad criticism without much context. 

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I thought the overall talent level of the players on the team might be enough to compensate for the lack of talent from the coaches, but when Shazier went down, they couldn't mask the flaws in the coaches anymore. 

Okay....please explain, in detail, what coaching changes you would have made to make up for the loss of Shazier.   Be precise.   

Looking forward to your response.

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2 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Every year, the same Steeler fans chant Tomlin should be fired.....but have absolutely no suggestions about who to replace him with. 

The Steelers would have their pick of head coaching candidates every year, and despite every year coaches coming in and instantly turning franchises around, you act as if there's no one out there who can possibly come in and replace Tomlin. Like, we as fans need to provide a specific name as if we've personally interviewed these guys. Otherwise, it's just impossible to do better.

What I know is that the current guy doesn't seem to add a lot of value on gamedays.

How about we just go the Varsity Blues route and make Ben a player-coach?

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Steelers go 7-9 next year.....One year from now.....

Wouldn't make firing Tomlin wrong. Would just mean they hired the wrong people. But this team wouldn't go 7-9.

 

And the Whiz again? Ben hated him and he has ties to the organization. Art II probably loves the idea.

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Just now, steelcurtain29 said:

Prime examples of why I always felt great players make awful coaches.

They likely feel talent can come natural to players like it did with themselves. 

That and I feel like Great players don't fully understand how they did things.  It just happened.

Ask Freeney about his spin move and he just says "I slap the hands and roll inside".  Great player but I don't want him coaching because he doesn't know how he did what he did.  Kevin Green was a tactician at OLB and rushing, so he understood how he does everything and was able to explain it.  That's the type of guys that make great coaches.

Like I can tell you right now:

Terrell Suggs will be asked to coach OLB's when he retires, but he's going to be awful.

Rob Ninkovich is also going to be asked to coach after he retires, and he's going to be really good.

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Tomlin...here is the thing, this is gonna be long winded. 

Tomlin isnt a great clock manager and just like today makes bad decisions in critical situations.

The onside kick was a bad decision made for the right reason. He didnt believe the defense good force a 3 and out, did we?

The 4th down calls were terrible outside of the 2 that resulted in tds. Ben checking out of a run to throw the ball which failed speaks about his faith in Haleys play calling.

Tomlin isnt Bellichick but he is the 2nd best HC in the league. 

Todd Haley runs a cookie cutter offense, predictable, and mostly ineffective. He needs to be fired.

Everyone involved with developing LBs needs to be fired. Does this really need explanation? The talent isnt necessarily there but the potential that is, well its not being developed into a useful product on the field.

Im on the fence about Carnell Lake. I have my doubts about his ability to develop players as well. The talent hasny been spectacular but we took a very raw Burns for him to develop as well as Sean Davis. Both are not without talent but imo are without progression.

Keith Butler needs to go. Its time for REAL CHANGE on defense, maybe as much as a complete scheme change.

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3 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Wouldn't make firing Tomlin wrong. Would just mean they hired the wrong people. But this team wouldn't go 7-9.

 

And the Whiz again? Ben hated him and he has ties to the organization. Art II probably loves the idea.

Then by definition firing Tomlin would be wrong if they hired the wrong people.  Means they couldn't find someone better.

 

And the reason Ben didn't like Wiz is Wiz was conservative with the ball and Ben wanted to air it out more.

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Just now, warfelg said:

Then by definition firing Tomlin would be wrong if they hired the wrong people.  Means they couldn't find someone better.

No. It means their process of finding a coach was flawed. It's like saying if you dump one girl and the next one doesn't work out, you inherently made the wrong decision getting rid of the previous one.

But, this team wouldn't go 7-9. Jesus, get Wade Philips on the phone. He'll take the gig in a heartbeat and could easily coast this team to 12-4. Only thing I worry about is him having a heart attack once he hears who is on the phone with a job offer.

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

And the reason Ben didn't like Wiz is Wiz was conservative with the ball and Ben wanted to air it out more.

How is this going to be different now?

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3 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

The onside kick was a bad decision made for the right reason. He didnt believe the defense good force a 3 and out, did we?

The 4th down calls were terrible outside of the 2 that resulted in tds. Ben checking out of a run to throw the ball which failed speaks about his faith in Haleys play calling.

And here's my thing on both of these:

We recover that kick, convert on 4th....we're talking about how great those moves were and how being ballsy paid off.

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Just now, CKSteeler said:

No. It means their process of finding a coach was flawed. It's like saying if you dump one girl and the next one doesn't work out, you inherently made the wrong decision getting rid of the previous one.

But, this team wouldn't go 7-9. Jesus, get Wade Philips on the phone. He'll take the gig in a heartbeat and could easily coast this team to 12-4. Only thing I worry about is him having a heart attack once he hears who is on the phone with a job offer.

No it clearly means you made a bad decision.  Easily.  

It's not like just dumping one girl and the next one didn't work out.  It's like dumping a girl because she's a redhead instead of blond, is thin rather than curvy, and has a strange laugh but overall is a great girl, treats you well, and for the most part makes you happy.

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How is this going to be different now?

Wiz has a much better feel for the flow and rhythm of the game.  I've said that a few times now that Haley 100% lacks that.

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1 minute ago, warfelg said:

And here's my thing on both of these:

We recover that kick, convert on 4th....we're talking about how great those moves were and how being ballsy paid off.

The defense was bad. Jaguars playcalling is not guaranteed to be the same if they kick deep.

But every onside we've see from Boswell has been atrocious. I don't even think he's managed to give a chance for a recovery because it never even gets close to 10 yards.

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Just now, warfelg said:

It's not like just dumping one girl and the next one didn't work out.  It's like dumping a girl because she's a redhead instead of blond, is thin rather than curvy, and has a strange laugh but overall is a great girl, treats you well, and for the most part makes you happy.

If I fire someone, they aren't making me happy. You aren't talking about a process. You are starting from the same assumption that Tomlin is a quality coach. I'm starting from the opposite end. I think he's mediocre and can be upgraded with minimal risk in the short term and even less in the long term.

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:
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Wiz has a much better feel for the flow and rhythm of the game.  I've said that a few times now that Haley 100% lacks that.

I'm not arguing which coordinator is better. But why would this make 35 year HOF QB happy? I mean, how much say Ben should have on the decision of who to hire is up for debate, but I don't think the right approach is to make another hire that would almost certainly antagonize him.

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Just now, warfelg said:

And here's my thing on both of these:

We recover that kick, convert on 4th....we're talking about how great those moves were and how being ballsy paid off.

My point on the onside kick isnt to criticize Tomlin but rationalize the decision.  He did not believe in the Defense and he said so indirectly after the game.

The 4th down failures werent even close to succeeding, the decision to go for it wasnt the problem,  the manner in which they did so was

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2 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

The Steelers would have their pick of head coaching candidates every year, and despite every year coaches coming in and instantly turning franchises around, you act as if there's no one out there who can possibly come in and replace Tomlin.

No, you just like to make it seem that way.

Never once said Tomlin couldnt be improved upon.  Not once.   

Only said I dont trust it would be as easy to find that upgrade as the Anti-Tomlin crowd does

I know they COULD hire a new coach.    My point is, most fans just chant "fire Tomlin" without any suggestions of who to replace him with.

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Like, we as fans need to provide a specific name as if we've personally interviewed these guys. Otherwise, it's just impossible to do better.

Fair point, I guess, but this isnt about who you would hire....its about who would be a good option.

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What I know is that the current guy doesn't seem to add a lot of value on gamedays.

Well, you do nothing but hate on him and give him credit for absolutely nothing and never have, so yes....we are all well aware of how you feel.

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Wouldn't make firing Tomlin wrong. Would just mean they hired the wrong people. But this team wouldn't go 7-9.

How do you know it wouldnt go 7-9?    You have no idea the type of changes a new head coach would make.   You just like to assume it would be for the better because of your undying hate for Tomlin.    

And the point was, Steeler fans are spoiled.   If we arent winning Superbowls....Steeler fans will bellyache and kneejerk.    Steeler fans rallied for Cowher to be fired back in 2000 and 2003.....at least.     Some Steeler fans have been pushing to get Tomlin fired since 2009.     Never fails.  

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1 minute ago, CKSteeler said:

The defense was bad. Jaguars playcalling is not guaranteed to be the same if they kick deep.

But every onside we've see from Boswell has been atrocious. I don't even think he's managed to give a chance for a recovery because it never even gets close to 10 yards.

How does that change my point?  We recover and convert, especially convert, the tone of the game is different.  

If we convert on the second drive, We at least get 3 points and all the sudden the game is 7-3 and it changes the tone of the game.

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Just now, warfelg said:

How does that change my point?  We recover and convert, especially convert, the tone of the game is different.  

If we convert on the second drive, We at least get 3 points and all the sudden the game is 7-3 and it changes the tone of the game.

Well, I'm getting at the fact that the team seems to be genuinely awful at this play which is already based on luck. And I have to wonder what Boswell is doing in practice to even give Tomlin hope. Because what we see on gamedays? I'm to the point where I'd never trust him to kick another onsides again unless it was clear cut no other way to win.

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