MacReady Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said: Now name all the later drafted QBs over the past 15 years that didn't pan out instead of 3 that did. Still the norm? As if the last 15 years matter in this discussion. Every single new rule change that makes it easier on quarterbacks makes quarterbacks 1) less valuable 2) more capable of thriving in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: As if the last 15 years matter in this discussion. Every single new rule change that makes it easier on quarterbacks makes quarterbacks 1) less valuable 2) more capable of thriving in the NFL. If you read what i quoted. I didn't bring the 15 year timeline via Rodgers up. Rule changes make it easier for QBs over time for sure, but it's largely been the same QBs who have been good over that period, not just random new undrafted QBs coming into the league and doing well. So,obviously QB talent that has a great deal to do with it, not just the rule evolution. In GB's sample size, I'm just glad those rule changes helped out the careers of Brian Brohm, Brett Hundley, Kizer, et all, as much as Rodgers'. Edited December 4, 2019 by Arthur Penske Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Just now, Arthur Penske said: If you read what i quoted. I didn't bring the 15 year timeline via Rodgers up. Rule changes make it easier for QBs over time for sure, but it's largely been the same QBs who have been good over that period, not just random new undrafted QBs coming into the league and doing well. So,obviously QB talent that has a great deal to do with it, not just the rule evolution. In GB's sample size, I'm just glad those rule changes helped out the careers of Brian Brohm, Brett Hundley, Kizer, et all, as much as Rodgers'. No, I understood what you were saying. Here are the passer ratings ranked highest to lowest since 2004 (Minimum 6 starts): Prescott 2016 - 105 Watson 2017 - 103 Griffin 2012 - 102Wilson 2012 - 100 Roethlisberger 2004 - 98Hodges 2019 - 97 Mayfield 2018 - 93Kessler 2016 - 92 Minsnew 2019 - 92 Mariota 2015 - 92Mullens 2018 - 91 Murray 2019 - 89 Ryan 2008 - 88Bridgewater 2014 - 85 Other than Ben Roethlisberger, you'd have to go all the way down to Carson Palmer for the next highest-rated rookie QB from 2004. His QB rating in his rookie season? 77. Literally HALF of the best rookie QB performances over the past 15 years have come from quarterbacks taken 32nd overall or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: No, I understood what you were saying. Here are the passer ratings ranked highest to lowest since 2004 (Minimum 6 starts): Prescott 2016 - 105 Watson 2017 - 103 Griffin 2012 - 102Wilson 2012 - 100 Roethlisberger 2004 - 98Hodges 2019 - 97 Mayfield 2018 - 93Kessler 2016 - 92 Minsnew 2019 - 92 Mariota 2015 - 92Mullens 2018 - 91 Murray 2019 - 89 Ryan 2008 - 88Bridgewater 2014 - 85 Other than Ben Roethlisberger, you'd have to go all the way down to Carson Palmer for the next highest-rated rookie QB from 2004. His QB rating in his rookie season? 77. Literally HALF of the best rookie QB performances over the past 15 years have come from quarterbacks taken 32nd overall or later. Huh? why would only their rookie years be relevant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 23 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: As if the last 15 years matter in this discussion. Every single new rule change that makes it easier on quarterbacks makes quarterbacks 1) less valuable 2) more capable of thriving in the NFL. Exactly, why acknowledge evidence to the contrary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Just now, Arthur Penske said: Huh? why would only their rookie years be relevant? Lol, are you kidding me? Because the first year of a player's career is generally the hardest for them to adapt to the NFL since they've never been in it before. Lol. It's relevant because it's proof that the learning curve and steep incline in difficulty is narrowed with every single rule passage favoring quarterbacks and offenses. First years make or break quarterbacks. Blaine Gabbert, David Carr and ten thousand other quarterbacks have different careers if they had sat for a year or been on better teams or played in better years for quarterbacks. Pass rush and brutal hits ruined their confidence and their ability and made them develop bad habits they could never get out of. The proof is there for anyone willing to look at it. Some people - everybody except you - can see that the two highest rookie QB ratings in 2004 being a Hall of Fame Roethlisberger at 98 and then all the way down to 77 for the next highest in Carson Palmer being eclipsed by the likes of Hodges, Minsnew, Kessler, Mullens... Eh, I'll save it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Lol, are you kidding me? Because the first year of a player's career is generally the hardest for them to adapt to the NFL since they've never been in it before. Lol. It's relevant because it's proof that the learning curve and steep incline in difficulty is narrowed with every single rule passage favoring quarterbacks and offenses. First years make or break quarterbacks. Blaine Gabbert, David Carr and ten thousand other quarterbacks have different careers if they had sat for a year or been on better teams or played in better years for quarterbacks. Pass rush and brutal hits ruined their confidence and their ability and made them develop bad habits they could never get out of. The proof is there for anyone willing to look at it. Some people - everybody except you - can see that the two highest rookie QB ratings in 2004 being a Hall of Fame Roethlisberger at 98 and then all the way down to 77 for the next highest in Carson Palmer being eclipsed by the likes of Hodges, Minsnew, Kessler, Mullens... Eh, I'll save it. What? What did Kessler, Mullens go on to do after their rookie years? They're irrelevant now. Minsnew and Hogdes have played a handful of NFL games. It's not a relevant sample size to declare them good or even capable Qbs yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 Eli's gonna get a curtain call..... Coach Shurmur - Eli Manning very likely to start on Monday; Daniel Jones has moderate high ankle sprain. Mike Garafolo - Eli Manning hasn’t enjoyed a win over the Eagles since 11/6/16. Five-game losing streak. Wouldn’t he love to snap that one for the Giants on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 ProFootballReference - Lowest % of passes dropped: 1. Ryan Tannehill - 2.3% 2. Matt Ryan - 2.8% 3. Lamar Jackson - 2.9% 4. Matthew Stafford - 3.2% 5. Aaron Rodgers - 3.4% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_gb Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Arthur Penske said: Now name all the later drafted QBs over the past 15 years that didn't pan out instead of 3 that did. Still the norm? So we're just going to sleep on Gardner Minsnew, Dak Prescott the Kyle Allen's and Bridgewaters etc.. showings as well? I don't need to name you those, I said this is a new trend, not an old one. Quarterbacks are producing whether or not they get drafted in the early 1st. Do I have an explanation for it? I certainly do not. However, next year you have Herbert, Tua, Fromm, Eason & Burrows and not ALL of them will go in the early 1st but certainly, all have a chance to produce in the NFL. PS: I don't always agree with @Outpost31 takes in fact, I think most of the time they're ludicrous. However, I don't think he's wrong on this one and is making a very valid point. Edited December 4, 2019 by Nick_gb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Did I miss the meeting on Minshew>Minsnew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Nick_gb said: Lamar Jacksons, Russell Wilsons and Aaron Rodgers do. So sure, why not. Very likely a Stafford like QB falls to the late first in the 2020 draft as well. Its becoming the norm and not the exception. It completely ignores every QB drafted later that fail. How do you know you’re not getting Lynch or Osweiler or Weeden or Kizer as opposed to the ones you mention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Leader said: ProFootballReference - Lowest % of passes dropped: 1. Ryan Tannehill - 2.3% 2. Matt Ryan - 2.8% 3. Lamar Jackson - 2.9% 4. Matthew Stafford - 3.2% 5. Aaron Rodgers - 3.4% Tannehill is a WR so of course he will have the lowest drop rate among QBs Edited December 4, 2019 by Malfatron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, deathstar said: It completely ignores every QB drafted later that fail. How do you know you’re not getting Lynch or Osweiler or Weeden or Kizer as opposed to the ones you mention? Look at how many quarterbacks are taken in each draft. It’s probably like... 10? Now compare a QB bust rate in later rounds and all rounds to every other position. QB is becoming among the easiest positions to play in an NFL that wants points. Of course a 3rd-7th round QB is going to bust. 90% of 3rd-7th round picks at all positions fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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